[gothic-l] Re: Illerup objects with runes.

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

> 
> As Jordanes writes the goths may have immigated from the Island 
> scandza around the beginning of our era. 


Hi Anders,

I know that is not your main point, but just to add: Jordanes actually 
wrote that the Goths have migrated from the Island of Scandza some 
1000 years or so before our era!!




> I therefore prefer to believe in the view hinted out by Snorri 
> Sturlusson that the worship of Gaut came from the south with Odin 
and 
> his people. 




Can I ask who these people of Odin where? The name Odin is just a 
derivation from Wodan as I understand. Is there also an indication 
that Wodan came from the south?




This is also said to be in the beginning of our era e. 
g. 
> in the Ole Wormius transcript of the prologue of the Edda.
> ( translating 
> from swedish) Snorri (or someone else)? himself from the  Ole 
Wormius 
> the life medic of danish king Kristian IV transcript of the prologue 
> of the Edda in Åke Ohlmark's translation of the Edda, Uddevalla 1964 
> (its quite long so, I don't have time to translate the whole of it 
> now):  
> ----------
> From their glory the aftercoming generations named themselves after 
> their highness names, especially the romans which had been the most 
> excellent in many things after the days of the trojumen. So it is 
> told, that when Roma was completely built, then the 
> romans applied their customs and laws as close as possible to what 
> common  among ther forefathers the trojumen. And so much force 
> followed this people for many ages after, that when the roman chief 
> Pompeius was ravaging in the east lands, then Odin fled out of Asia 
> to here to the north in the world and then gave himself and his folk 
> their name, so that Priamus was said to have been called Odin and 
his 
> queen Frigg. From this also the kingdom was named, and Frigia  was 
> the place called where the stronghold stood.  And whether Odin 
> claimed this to give him greater honour or the names once were the 
> same but had been changed with the confusion of tounges, so has , 
> however, many wise men held this for a truth, and it ocurred for 
long 
> ages after that each one who was a great chief took these old as 
> example...
> When Odin chose stronghold town for himself where it now is called 
> Sigtuna, then that stronghold was named after his own name . But 
when 
> he took the kingdom, he called himself Njord, and that is why it is 
> said in old wisdom books that the first Svea king was called Njord, 
> which only means that it was Odin himself who there had been the 
> highest...)
> -----------


I think this god Njord is sometimes also identified with the Germanic 
god Nerthus. The Germanic people who lived on the Jutland peninsula, 
i.e. Jutes, Saxons and Angles are sometimes called the 
Nerthus-people, as they seemed to have belonged to a common 
Nerthus-cult.



  
> Of course Snorri might be wromg but it seems to me that the evidenve 
> are for him not against him.
> My hunch is that Gaut (coming from the suth) and goths(from the 
> north) are totally unrelated, even though of course the goths also 
> later may have been worshiping Gaut.


A depiction of a Celtic god in the Celtic princely grave of Glauberg 
(500BC) shows a one-eyed god with two ravens. An early depiction of 
Wodan/Odin? or simply a sign that certain images travelled between 
cultures and the characteristics of a god of one culture were used to  
embellished the god of another culture?

cheers,

Dirk




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