[gothic-l] Re: Illerup objects with runes.

[keth at ONLINE.NO]

Dirk wrote:
>total agreement here! I think one cult or religion has hardly ever
>comletely wiped out the predessor. This is even true for Christianity,
>which by surplanting Roman and other pagan cults has incorporated many
>of the characteristics of its predesessors. Also for the Goths,
>Wolfram identifies a so called Celtic Hirsana-layer in the Amal
>mythology which testifies to the acculturation of the continental
>Goths to the Celts.
>

Couldn't that equally well be the other way around?
After all, very little is known about early Keltic mythology.
(see S&P Botheroyd, Lex.d.Kelt.Myth.), and more importantly
everything points to regional differences.

So if you find parallells this could easily be features that
go back to older layers that are neither Keltic nor Italic.

(example: Thundergod)
btw, I don't find "Hirsana" in Botheroyd's book.


>
>
>> Some of the elements were quite ordinary and could easily be
>> developed as independent parallels, some elements were borroughed as
>> the one eyed figure with two ravens you are dating to a time where
>> Wothan should not exist, and some elements were simply a part of
>> their ancestral history - especially in the second group (nomads and
>> migration people).
>
>I would like to emphasise that this Celtic depiction is of course not
>Wodan as such. It shows some superficial similarities which may be
>derived from it, but which may also be entirely coincidental. However,
>I find it noteworthy that ancient people like  Romans and the Goths
>seemed to have been easily able to identify their own gods in the
>traits of the gods of the others. Thus, Wodan I think was identified
>with Mercury, while Tiu may have been Mars etc. All this demonstrates
>the inclusive character of these pagan religion and from my point of
>view makes the identity: 'common cult equals same ethnic origin' very
>difficult to uphold.


I think ethnic identity means that they have been so long together
that nobody remembers anything about differences any more.
(thoroughly integrated groups by thorough mixing for many centuries
until all memory of specific identity is erased)

Read about the christianisation of Norway. I don't think it affected
people's identity, because the identity lay in the family line.
The Iceander Ari fróði still knew to recite his "langfeðgatal"
(36 generations!) even after 5 generations of Christianity.

Best regards
Keth



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