[gothic-l] Odin / Religions (Was: Illerup)

[trbrandt at POST9.TELE.DK]

Hi Dirk

In my opinion the religions worshipping fertility and the Sun (known
from the pictures of the Bronce Ages) in Scandinavia continued as
fertility cults (Ingviones/Nerthus) and later maybe even in a
creator/warrior cult (Gauts) in some turbulent areas (Ingemar).

The archaeologi indicates, that Wothan penetrated slowly from south
in the 5th century (bracteats etc.). Around 520-30 a general shift in
weapons to a more uniform style, in offerings and burials all over
Scandinavia is registered both in Sweden and in Denmark. In Uppsala 3
big mounds were erected, and 50 years later the Vendel style spread
over Scandinavia with a dominating center around Uppsala using style-
elements also known from Alemans, Merovings, Lombards and
Anglosaxons - a distaint center with international connections
consolidating and demonstrating power. This center continued and
around 1000AD Adam of Bremen described the main temple of Odin in
Uppsala.

Very brief the sagas tell us about a war between Ases (=Odin and his
men from Asia) and Vanes (=the old traditions). Odin, who arrived
from Tanais to Sigtuna near Uppsala, reconciled with the Vanes, and
some of these got place among the Ases. Odin also became the ancestor
to the Scandinavian kings.

My explanation is that a migration people arrived with their typical
warrior and ancestor cult around 500-30. Although relatively few they
subdued the local Ingviones around Uppsala, but accepted some of
their fertility gods (Ing/Frej and Njord) in order to consolidate
their power without spoiling the old farming society (like Theodoric
in Italy 20 years earlier). From there they made most of their small
neighbour kingdoms "subject and tributary to themselves" (Procopius
about the Heruls in Pannonia 30 years earlier). Most of the gold
disappeared except around the religious center which was consolidated
50 years later, but soon they had to split up in several centres as
they were not able to cover all Scandinavia - having still a
religious connection.

If the leader of the Ases did not play such a role already at his
arrival, he got after his death a Wothan-like shape, and his name
became the Scandinavian version, Odin (According to Wolfram the name
does not occur before the 6th century). Probably they already
worshipped Wothan or Gaut, and took advantage of both gods being
known in some areas of Scandinavia already.

How could the old population believe that story? Probably they
didn't! They believed in their old Vanes and the weapons of the Ases -
 and the supporters got rich too. Odin was primarily accepted as the
god of kings, earls and warriors - his decendents. Looking at
archaeology he never got the position we should expect, and even 500
years later Thor had according to Adam the position in the middle
between Odin and Frej in his temple in Uppsala. Odin is in the sagas
described with a dominating position, because he later became the god
of the Viking warriors, but looking closer into the poems and sagas
the Norse mythology was an ever changing mess - a compromise which
should not be expected if it was a society expanding by its own power.

This is one way to explain the Norse mythology, but it is of course
not the only solution. Is this in accordance with the principles we
discussed below? Do other listmembers have any objections against it
as a possibility?

The reason to bring this at Gothic list is, that the names Ases and
Tanais point at an Eastgermanic people worshipping as late as 500AD
Gaut/Wothan-ancestors. This could be the royal Herulian family -
according to Procopius a Gothic tribe. But please keep this out of
the argumentation at this stage, as I did not use it.

Regards
Troels

--- In gothic-l at y..., dirk at s... wrote:
> > Several images and names of gods were spread all over Europe
being
> > picked up by different people and cultures in different shapes.
> >
> > I further believe, that one group were agriculturists dependent
of
> > the weather worshipping primarily the sun and fertility - often
with
> > the dark side of the nature as a twin. The other - and maybe
younger
> -
> >  group were nomads (often cattleholders), warriors and maybe
> > tradesmen dependent of success in war, strong leadership and
short
> > term values worshipping primarily an ancestor in shape of a
creator
> > or warriorgod in order to strengthen the power of the kingship
and
> > willingness to die in battle. The majority were probably
> combinations
> > of these two types.
>
>
> Hi Troels,
>
> total agreement here!
>
> >
> > Some of the elements were quite ordinary and could easily be
> > developed as independent parallels, some elements were borroughed
as
> > the one eyed figure with two ravens you are dating to a time
where
> > Wothan should not exist, and some elements were simply a part of
> > their ancestral history - especially in the second group (nomads
and
> > migration people).
>



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