Ptolemy describes the fjords [gothic-l]

[keth at ONLINE.NO]

Hi Bertil you wrote:

>Was just wondering what the "difficult reading" is? Could "folii cetri"
>be anything else than "lemon tree leaf"? Personally I don't know
>how the leaf of a citru tree looks like, but if it looks anything like
>most leafs, Gutland is a good bet.

For us I think the citrus leave, like the leaf that sometimes comes with a
lemon fruit is the easiest reading. The more difficult reading is the tuja,
because
most people are not sure what a roman tuja leaf looks like. You have the
occidentalis in
your garden, but the romans knew the orrientalis which also must have had deeply
cut leaves, as I explained. I hope you read the earlier posts in the thread.
Above you ask a question, that I already explained, when you ask: "could folii
cetri be anything else than lemon tree leaf." If you do not have a suitable
latin dictionary, my earlier post quotes two different Latin dictionaries.
If you have been in Spain you will know the leaf of the citrus fruit. It
has the vesica piscis form, with smooth edge. Gotland does have
irregular sides, but is not deeply cut. Of course the reading "lemon leaf"
is not impossible. But Ptolemy is quoted by Jordanes as saying
1) Oceani arctoi = the arctic ocean
2) insula magna = a large island
3) lateribus pandis = curved sides
4) per longa ducta concludens se = it has a long shape

I therefore agree that it could be Gotland, especially if you
read § 17, where it says that the island lies vis à vis the
Vistula delta. And yet, there are also contradictions,
especially if you read on to § 19, where J. is still describing
Scandza, but is here saying that in the summer they have
40 days where the Sun does not set. Then you suddenly realize
this it is not Gotland at all, because Gotland lies entirely
South of the Arctic Circle, while it is only to the North
of the Arctic Circle that you ever see the Midnight Sun.
40 days with Midnight Sun is also quite far North of the
Polar Circle. You will not find Midnight Sun anywhere within
the Botnian Sea. To reach such places by ship it is absolutely
necessary to pass through the Kattegatt and follow the
Norwegian coast quite far. Andøya is the place that the
earlier scholars have meant was the place that is described
as the home of the Adogit. Also the mentioning of the
Screrefennae (§ 21) who also live on this same island,
and nourish themselves from birds eggs (the Saami), fit
poorly with Gotland, that surely is too small to hold
so many different peoples.

Of course, size is relative. "Insula magna" how large is that?
Tacitus writes that Britain is the largest island known to the
Romans. Ireland is decribed as smaller than Britain, but larger
than the Mediterranean islands. This implies that the norm of
comparison seems to be the Mediterranean islands. Hence Scanza
a large island, ought to be bigger than the Mediterranean islands.
(Corsica etc). But that does not seem to fit Gotland, which is
rather on the small side compared to the largest Mediterranean
islands. The second reading of folium citri as the leaf/branch
of tbe roman tuja, will give the deep cut shape corresponding
to the Norse fjords.

I have changed back the header so that you can more easily retrieve the
earlier posts.

Regards
Keth



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