[gothic-l] Digest Number 348

[Ingemar Nordgren]

Dirk wrote:

"the Vandili did no break loose from this group. In the first century
AD there was apparently no one tribe with the name Vandili, but the
name  Vandili was a collective name for several tribes (including
Lacringi, Victufali, Asdingi, Silingi, Helvecones, Narharnavales,
etc.), like the name Suevi was a collective name for many tribes. The
upheavals from the late 2nd century onwards resulted in ethnical
processess which let to the demise or merger of some smaller tribes.
These tribes than reverted to the group-name Vandili/Vandals as this
was a common-unifiying denomiator. This is exactly analogous to the
Suevi. The name Suevi was also a group name that became a specific
tribal name only during the migration period, when various Suevic
tribes like Marcomanni, Quadi, Semnones, Juthungi etc. seized to
exist."

Tacitus  counted them - all the vandilian subtribes - as Suebi.


"There is no indication that the Vandili worshipped a god Gaut. Such a
god is not mentionend in the royal geneologies of the Vandals."

There is - in the  Hasding subtribe.


"Vandili and Jutland? This is good old Gustav Kosinna again. The only
thing that links the Vandili to Jutland is the name similarity to
Vendsyssael (or so). Most authors today argue that there is nothing to
link the Vandili-Lugian group with northern Jutland. Marek Oledski
has shown that the Oder-Warthe culture (that is linked to the
Vandili-Lugii) owes nothing to north Jutish iron age cultures."

Clever guy. Nowadays most people argue that remains can not prove a
culture. It normally is your own standpoint.People moving also adapt
new  traces.

"Again, leading experts like Prof Ettel who worked all their lives with
 archaeological assemblages attributed to Langobards and even
proto-Langobards dating back to 600BC (Muehlen-Eichsen cemetary 600BC
to 100AD) say that there is no way that these people came from
Scandinavia. Of course they could have been influence from
Scandinavia, but especially the Muehlen-Eichsen cemetary shows that
most cultural influences came from the Celts in the south."

Again - the Nordic Bronze Age culture influenced and probably included
these parts of PRESENT Germany and accordingly influenced and the Scania
origin is in fact stressed by Paulus Diaconus and  also Origo mentions
Gausus. Still the Langobards must not nessecarily have the same
technical/material culture  as other parts of Scandinavia .All
tribes/peoples of course differ.


"Of course, but fact is that there is no indication whatsoever that the
Vandili worshipped Gaut. There is also no indication that the early
Gutones worshipped Gaut. Note that royal geneologies have often been
made up on the spot as it were."

There is no written evidence for the Vandili, no. There is a lot of
known intermarriage and cooperation however but most important for me is
my Ring-name survey  which points towards a common religious origin.
Concerning the early Gotones nobody   knows for sure but I stick to my
theory, which took me a great number of years to reach, and you to your
I suppose.


"The Vandili have always been on the continent."

Glad you know that for a fact. I never could be so convinced of
something that is not proven.

"What is the evidence for parts of Northwestern Germany beeing part of
Scandinavian Bronze Age culture?"

It was part of the old Suebian/Suionean cultural sphere finally falling
apart in a.e. the Suebian leauge, preserving the name. Do not tell me it
means "the brave" or "the free" because that I know and disagree to.To
me it is "the Sun people".


"PS:  Oh dear, I am sure we will always disagree on these matters."

I suppose so but this also secures the scientific research, wich needs
opposite ideas to develope.

Kindest
Ingemar

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