Comparing languages. Examples [gothic-l]

[Cory B Strohmier]

Hi Keth,
	Looked at from that point of view, your objection is well taken, and I
agree with your points in the technical context in which you placed them,
but I wasn't attemping a scientific comparision.
	Your methodology would seem to limit comparisons with Gothic to a small,
contemporary portion of the runes, making other information "irrelevant";
however, what is irrelevant to one methodology may be quite relevant to
another.  Your methodology would also seem not to take into account the
problem of comparing texts of different Germanic languages, where the
writer in Language A has two equal synonyms available, one with a cognate
in language B, and one without.  If the writer in Language A chooses the
synonym that does not have a cognate in Language B, the two languages
will seem further apart than they actually are, which could seriously
skew the results of a comparison; for example, Gothic has two words for
"father":  "atta" and "fadar"; Old High German has "fater."  Bishop
Wulfila wrote:  "Atta unsar"; the Old High German scribes wrote:  "Fater
unser."  The texts seem far apart.  Yet Bishop Wulfila could have
written:  "Fadar unsar,"  and the presence in Middle High German of the
word "Etzel" (from Gothic Attila, meaning "Little Father") may point to
an Old High German form of "atta", which may have dropped out as a result
of the scribes choosing "Fater."  In any case, a comparision of the
actual texts would make the two languages seem further apart than what
they actually are.
Sincerely yours,
Cory

On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:54:05 +0200 keth at online.no writes:
> Hi Cory!
> Thank you for your reply!
> My objection is methodological:   :)
> You compare 3 samples from 3 related languges at vastly
> different points in time. Since modern German is direct descendant
> of Old High German, but separated by a thousand years, it does not
> belong in the comparison. Gothic from ca.350 AD  with Old High
> German
> from ca. 950, is also a wide separation.
>
> In my examples I did something entirely different.
> I compared Gutnish (by an example sentence) from ca. 1350
> with Icelandic, also from ca. 1350.
>
> Then as a control I also compared modern German with modern Dutch,
> because those are living languages today and many people who
> have visited both countries are intrigued by the question how
> close they are. Well, in my opinion Dutch and German are not
> *very close. Because a speaker of one of the two languages does not
> automatically understand the other language. It takes a while to
> become
> accustomed. That is different between f.ex. Norwegian and Danish
> which are virtually the same language. Or even Swedish.
> Modern Icelandic is, however, considerably further away - because
> the
> languages have drifted apart over the last 700 years. And it is the
> Scandinavian languages that have done most of the drifting.
> But if you have chance to ask an Icelander how close he feels
> that Old Gutnic is to Icelandic, then that would, I think, be the
> best test
> that one could devise. Because only a very seasoned user of one
> of the two languages that are being compared, can directly "feel"
> how far the languages are apart. And that is, in my opinion,
> that which counts.
>
> Best regards
> Keth
>
>

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