[gothic-l] Re: Gothic peoples

[czobor at CANTACUZINO.RO]

Hi Bertil,

Of course, it depends on what definition is used.

Wolfram uses the term "Gothic peoples" in a cultural acception: all 
the peoples that adopted the Arianism with the Gothic Bible and 
therefore using Wulfilan Gothic as a literary language. There were 
also strong political links between the states founded by these 
"Gothic peoples" on the territory of the Roman Empire (Ostrogothic, 
Visigothic, Burgundian, Alanic-Vandalic kingdoms), and for all of them 
the Arian belief and the use of Gothic as a literary language 
represented definitory treats distinguishing them from their Catholic 
Romance-speaking subjects and neighbors.
>From the ethnical point of view, I agree that by "Gothic peoples" 
should be understood only the Ostrogoths, Visigoths (and Gothi 
Minores, and Crimean Goths) and, eventually, the Gepids.
But I persist in my belief that there was no substantial difference 
between the Gothic and Vandalic languages.
If you wish to continue the discussion about Vandalic off list, than 
use rather the following address: czobor at minsan.dnt.ro (I check my 
e-mail more frequently here than on the other address: 
czobor at cantacuzino.ro). But I don't know what you could gain from the 
continuation of this discussion, since I don't know more things about 
Vanndalic and, anyway, I'm not a linguist or specialist in such 
matters.

Best regards,

Francisc

--- In gothic-l at y..., Bertil Häggman <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
> Francisc,
> 
> Maybe we could come back to this more in depth
> but the Vandals certainly adopted Arianism but that
> does not, necessarily, make them "a Gothic people".
> Yes, the Alans were probably germanicized.
> 
> But for the purpose of this list I don't think "Gothic"
> should be too broad. Maybe Goths and Gepids,
> but not further, in my opinion.
> 
> There is not much published on the Vandalic
> language but in the late 19th century a book
> was published on the language or what
> was/is left of it (personal names and possibly
> the words from the poems you mention underneath
> as well as, I think, a few phrases).
> 
> The question of the different languages or dialects
> is of course a matter of definition, and I don't
> want to broaden that discussion as basically I
> don't think the Vandals or Vandalic belong to this
> list, rather to Germanic-L.
> 
> Would be happy, though, to continue the discussion,
> if you wish, off list.
> 
> Gothically
> 
> Bertil
> 



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