[gothic-l] Re: The Goths, Gutland (Gutones) and the Guta Saga

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at y..., malmqvist52 at y... wrote:
> 
> 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Mangir kunungar striþu a Gutland miþan haiþit war; þau hieldu Gutar 
> e 
> iemlika sigri oc ret sinum. Siþan sentu Gutar sendimen manga
> til Swiarikis, en engin þaira ficc friþ gart, fyrr þan Awair 
Strabain 
> af Alfa socn, hann gierþi fyrsti friþ wiþr Swia kunung."Many kings 
> fought against Gutland during heathen times; though the 
> Gutars always won and their ways were kept. Then the Gutars
> sent many envoys to Sweden, though no one managed to bring peace 
> before Awair Strabain from Alfa. He was the first one who
> brought peace with the King of Sweden."
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Hi Dirk,
> 
> I'm just an amateur, but I think this really look swedishish to me. 
i 
> think I would understand a good part of it given a few moments 
> thought. Not to say that I would understand gutnish fast SPOKEN very 
> good ( if it 's still alive).  I would definitely not understand 
> gothic, and I really do't understand why people say that this and 
> that swedish dialect is gothic. I think e. g. that this is also said 
> about "västgötska" due to the word öfsadröp, wich I think is "drip 
> from the roof" in english.
>  Or am I wrong in thinking that gutnish is closely related to 
> swedish? Clearly this must have  be looked upon many times before.
> 
> Best Wishes 
> Anders


Hi Anders and Matthew,

thanks for your replies. I understand the difficulties in comparing 
two languages that are separated by some 1200 years. However, being 
unable to understand Gothic and Gutnish myself, my question was simply 
whether or not the claim that Gutnish is basically Gothic (which a 
certain Elias Wessen seems to have made in one form or another) is 
valid or not. Personally, I would have found it very exiting if Gothic 
had survived beyond the 6th century not only on the Crimean, but also 
on Gotland.

However, the answer that is emerging seems to be that Gutnish and Old 
Gutnish are not Gothic and are not decendants of Gothic. This is also 
the view of a linguist friend of mine at Stockholm University, who 
confirmed that sources for Old Gutnish go back to the 14th century; 
that it belongs the the East Scandinavian Languages and that Gutnish 
is normally classified as a (unfortunately almost extinct) dialect of 
Swedish. Although Old Gutnish retained many archaic features, it is 
neither Gothic nor a derivation of Gothic. 

cheers
Dirk





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