[gothic-l] Re: Goth=Gad

[Tim O'Neill]

It's not a joke unfortunately.  There's a weird
branch of fundamentalist Christians called
'British Israelites' who believe the twelve lost
tribes of Israel wandered into northern Europe
and founded England, amongst other places.

They believe that all the passages in the Old
Testament which speak of 'Israel' are actually
prophecies about Great Britain and America.  My
brother was briefly mixed up with a church like
this for a while until some of their more racist
and anti-evolutionary ideas drove him away.
They publish whole books of this stuff, most of
based on the principle that if a European name
of a tribe or place *sounds* like something from
the Bible then it's proof of their theory.

I once had one argue that there was a Old Testament
patriarch called Eber and that his name was
reflected in various names in Scotland and Wales -
Aberswynth, Aberfeldy etc.  I got a map and showed
him that Aberswynth was at the mouth of the river
Swynth and Aberfeldy was at the mouth of the river
Feldy and that all the 'Aber-' placenames in Wales
and Scotland were at the mouths of rivers.  Surely,
I said, the logical conclusion is that this is a
Celtic word for 'river mouth'.  He changed the
subject.

There's little point in trying to reason with these
people.  *GOD* has told them they're right.

Tim O'Neill

-----Original Message-----
From: dirk at smra.co.uk [mailto:dirk at smra.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 26 June 2001 0:33
To: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Goth=Gad


Is that a joke or is that yet another example of 'creative'
linguistics to support weird theories?

Dirk




--- In gothic-l at y..., Yair Davidi <britam at n...> wrote:
> Extracts from "THe Tribes" by Yair Davidi
> THE TRIBE OF GAD OR "GOTH"
>
> THE DISPERSION OF GAD
>
> Names reminiscent of Gad are traced throughout this book to peoples
> otherwise known to have been of Israelite descent. The Tribe of Gad
was
> exiled with Reuben and the half-tribe of Menasseh to Halah, Habor,
the
> River of Gozan, and to Hara. Gad re-appeared as the Guti who were
allied to
> the Saka and Gimiri (Cimiri) in Mesopotamia and the Zagros Mountains
> region. From this area the Guti split into known groups. One group
went
> west to become the Geti of the Balkans. Another group was in the
east
> branching out from Hara in eastern Iran. In the sphere surrounding
the area
> of "Hara" the Gadites reappeared as the Pasar-Gadae, in the name
Gadrosia,
> in the Gadanopydres of Carmania; and in the Gu-te (Goths) whose name
is
> sometimes mistakenly transliterated as "Yuehchi"1. The name "Goth"
itself
> means GAD and is another way of enunciating it in Hebrew while the
Goths
> actually in some cases referred to themselves by the term "Gad" or
> something close to it.. The Goths are recorded as having called
themselves
> "GUDA"2 or "GODO"3.. "GAD" is recognized as a root occurring in
Gothic
> toponomy4; i.e. the root "GAD" in a place-name is accepted by
historians as
> evidence indicating that that place was probably once connected with
the
> Goths. Gadites were also known in Scotland (as "Gadeni") and Ireland
as the
> "Gaedhals".
>
> THE GOTHS OF GAD
>
>          Goths were to be found amongst the sundry northern tribes
who
> invaded England with the Anglo-Saxons and a Saxon group was known as
the
> GEDDINGAS.
>          The main body of Gad was that associated with the Goths and
with
> the so-called "Nordic" peoples. Goths were to settle in many lands
but
> numerically they probably remained concentrated in Scandinavia and
Sweden
> (Gotaland and Gothia)5 is the only place where today they can be
> distinguished as a specific people.
>          The sons of Gad (Genesis 46, Numbers 26) were Ziphion
(Hebrew:
> Tsifion: öôéåï), Haggi (Chaggiçâé:), Shuni: ((ùåðé, Ezbon (Etsbon:
òöáåï),
> Eri: (Geri: òøé), Arodi (òøåãé) and Areli ((àøàìé. Zipion (Tsiphion)
is
> recalled in the Thaifalli who were close allies of the Goths. From
the east
> they came westward with the Hun invasion and apparently settled in
France6.
> The name of the second son, Haggi is close to that of "Huga"7 which
name
> was applied to the Franks in the north. The Franks consisted mainly
of
> clans from Reuben with supplements from others, especially Menasseh.
> Nevertheless, the two tribes, Gad and Reuben, had been together on
the
> other side of the Jordan and were also exiled together so that
groups from
> one were to be found in the domain of the other. In an area
associated with
> the Goths in eastern Scythia. Ptolemy's Map of central Scythia has a
people
> north of the Jaxartes River named CACHAGE Scythae and this name too
derives
> from Hagi or "Chagi". Likewise, Chagi is found in the CHAUKI
(Hocings)8 who
> were a Frisian nation whose lands were overtaken in about 200 CE by
Saxons
> coming west from Holstein. The Chauci were obliged to leave their
lands and
> become amalgamated mainly with the Franks9 though some were absorbed
by the
> Saxons10. Tacitus11 describes the Chauci as the noblest of German
tribes,
> "So constituted as to prefer to protect their vast domain by justice
> alone...yet they are ready with arms, and if circumstances should
require
> with armies, men, and horses in abundance." There was also a people
named
> Cauci in Celtic Ireland who were related to the Chauci on the
Continent.
> The Batavia who settled in Holland were regarded as part of the
Chauci.
> They form a contingent from Gad amongst the Dutch population. Pliny
> included the Chauci in the Ingueone group of "German" tribes
together with
> the Cimbri and Teutoni. The Ingueones relate to Yngvi12. In
mythology,
> Yngvi (of the Ingueone group) was a son of the god Odin and an
ancestor of
> the Swedish kings whose dynasty was known as the Yinglings13. This
> association connects the Ingueones (Chauci, Teutons, and Cimbri)
with the
> Swedes. The Cimbri were located by Ptolemy in Jutland where their
name is
> recalled in the modern places of Himmerland and Himmersyssel14. [The
sounds
> "k", "c", "ch", and "h", interchange in studies of that era, thus
"Cimmer"
> or "Kimmer" becomes "Himmer"]. The name also occurs in Uppland
Himbran
> (Uppsala in Sweden), Hymber in south Norway, and Himbrin and
Himmerstein in
> Trondheim, also Norway. There is also Krimisham in Sweden and quite
a few
> place-names containing the root-word "hammer" indicating a possible
> Cimbrian association. Simon Grunau15 (ca.1530) wrote that the
Swedish Isle
> of Gothland was formerly known as Cymbria and that Goths had
resettled it,
> in about 500 BCE, after being forced out of Italy which they had
invaded
> previously. He also said that the name Bruthenia was given once to
northern
> Prussia as a result of Gothic settlement. "Bruthenia" is probably a
version
> of "Brith" which name (meaning "covenant") accompanied the
Cimmerians also
> to Britain. The Cimbrians were traditionally descended from the
Cimmerians
> (Gimiri) of old and the triumvirate of Saka, Gimiri, and Guti
(Goths) had
> been known since the Assyrian era.  In some respects this threesome
> overlapped the two-and-a-half-Tribes who had settled east of the
Jordan,
> i.e. the Cimmerians partly from Carmi: of Reuben, the Amyrgio-Sakae
from
> Machir of half-Menasseh and the Guti from Gad.
>          The ancient Guti were paralleled in Scandinavia by the
Geats or
> Goths.  The name "GUTI" itself in Scandinavia was used synonymously
with
> Goth16. The Gimiri (Cimmri) became the Cimbri who descended from
them and
> who were spread throughout Scandinavia with an historical connection
with
> Denmark. The Cimbri were close allies of the Teutons whom Ptolemy
located
> south of the Saxones and north of the (Aggiloi) Anglii. The Teutons
were to
> be swept up in the Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britain. The name Teuton
is
> cognate with "Teutarus" who according to legend was a Scythian and
taught
> Hercules archery. The term "TEUTON" is connected to that of Tahan,
son of
> Ephraim, son of Joseph. A similar form "TAHAT" (cf. Numbers 26; 35,
and
> 1-Chronicles 7; 20) was also known amongst the Tribe of Ephraim.
"Tahan"
> and "Tahat" are considered either one and the same entity17 or at
least
> related bodies. The Saxons represent the SAKAE of old meaning the
Scyths.
>          The sons of Gad were Ziphion and Haggi as well as Shuni:,
Ezbon,
> Eri:, and Arodi, and Areli (Genesis 46;16). Haggi (Chaggi) and Eri:
(Geri)
> were represented in tribes of East Scythia who in the west became
> associated with the Goths and Suebians. Serica in Eastern Siberia
was once
> the domain of the eastern Suebi. This was prior to a drastic
climatic
> change in that region. Also in Serica there dwelt a number of other
groups
> who later reappeared in the west and who were of Israelite descent.
One of
> these were the GARINAEI18, descendants of ERI (Geri) who reappeared
as the
> GRANI of Sweden who were noticed by Jordanes19. The Greuthingi [also
from
> "Eri:" i.e. Geri: òøé] were a section of the Goths who intermingled
with
> the Ostrogoths on the Black Sea coast. They are the same people as
the
> GREOTINGI whom Jordanes20 reported as being in Sweden.
>
> WERE THE GOTHS IN SCOTLAND???
>          The Gadeni of Scotland may have been derived from Gad. The
Goths
> had some type of connection with Scotland and some English authors
named
> them Ysgoths:29. In 1404 Archbishop Johannes de Gabonifontibus (who
had
> been in England) reported: "Two small nations are living along and
around
> the Black Sea; the Thats and a few Goths. The Goths claim to have
descended
> from the Scots and speak like the English"30.  The Thats
incidentally were
> related to the original Teutons of old. A section of them practiced
Judaism
> and are known as "The Mountain Jews". These have been often traced
to the
> Khazars.
>
> THE SONS OF GAD
>
> "And the sons of Gad; Ziphion, and Haggi, Shuni:, and Ezbon, Eri:,
and
> Arodi, and Areli" Genesis 46; 16.
>
> "The children of Gad after their families; of Zephon, the family of
the
> Zephoni: of Haggi, the family of the Haggi: of Shuni:, the family of
the
> Shuni::
> "Of Ozni, the family of the Ozni: of Eri:, the family of the Eri::
> "Of Arod, the family of the Arodi: of Areli, the family of the
Areli.
> "These are the families of the children of Gad according to those
that were
> numbered of them, forty thousand and five hundred.
> Numbers 26; 15-18).
>
> DAN AND THE SONS OF GAD:
> THE SHUNI OF SWEDEN.
>
>          The DANS (DAN) who finally settled in Denmark
traditionally33
> formerly sojourned in Sweden within whose land the Tribe of Gad
> predominated. Sweden34 was formed when the kingdom of the
Swedish-Goths
> (Gautland) united with that of the Svea. The Svea were known to the
Latins
> as Suiones. Tacitus mentions, (Germania 44) "The states of the
SUIONES
> right out in the sea. They are powerful not only in arms and men but
also
> in fleets". "SUIONES" (Svea) is similar to THE Hebrew Shuni: the
third son,
> whose name in Biblical times in the north was perhaps pronounceable
as
> "SUONI" ["S" for "SH" cf. Judges 12;6  "Siboleth" instead of
"Shiboleth";
> and "u" or "wu" before "o"].
>          The union of Gad and Dan, who in Biblical times were close
> neighbors, was repeated in the Gauti and Dauni which groups, says
Ptolemy,
> were on the Baltic coast.
>          The Goths were to dominate the region of Scythia, north of
the
> Black Sea, and here river names, such as Don, Danaper (Dnieper),
Danaster,
> and Danube, all bear witness to the presence of Dan. Strabo35 says
> expressly that the DANUBE was known to have received its name from
the
> Scyths . The Aorsi (from north of the Caucasus) are connected with
> Scandinavia and they were neighboured by the UDINI36 whose name is
said to
> mean "The DONS".  Amongst Scythian (and Gothic) clans the name DAN
or
> compounds of it is considered typical37.
>
> DAN AND THE SONS OF GAD: THE ARODI AND ARELI OF NORWAY AND SWEDEN.
>
>          The Arodi and Areli of Gad were also once linked with
Denmark of
> Dan. Denmark of the Danes was for a time ruled by the Hread-Goths or
> Hrodgoths38 who were related to the HARUDI (Hardi) which tribe from
Denmark
> migrated to Hordaland39 in Norway in the 200s and 300s CE. Also once
in
> Denmark were the ERULI (Harules) who were expelled somewhere between
> 100-500 CE40 and wandered extensively before finally returning to
> Scandinavia where some may have received part of their former
patrimony in
> Denmark back while others (possibly the bulk) settled in Sweden*.
The
> Herules are famous as a fierce, energetic, and knowledgeable
people41. More
> than any other group they are considered to have been masters of the
> semi-secret Runic script. Runes, on the whole, in the early stages
were
> especially associated with Gothic civilization that was reasonably
cultured
> despite hostile and primitive surroundings. RUNIC letters originated
in the
> Middle East and are derived from the ancient HEBREW script. Both the
Harudi
> and Eruli (Harules) are related to sons of Gad, Harudi from the
Arodi of
> Gad, and Eruli from Areli (Numbers 26; 17).
>
> THE SONS OF GAD:
> EZBON (ETSBON) ALSO CALLED OZNI
>          From the above it is apparent that the sons of Gad were
> represented in Tribal groups which were part of, or somehow
associated with
> the Gothic nation. Most of these groups had representative settlers
in
> Sweden: Ziphion was found in the Thaifali, who were Gothic-allies;
Haggi
> appears in the Chauci and amongst the Hugi Franks and the Hocings of
> England, and the Yinglings of Sweden; Eri: (Geri) was represented by
the
> Grani and Greotingi of Sweden and the Goths; Shuni: (Suoni) by the
Suiones
> of Sweden; Arodi by the Hreadgoths and Harudi; and Areli by the
Eruli or
> Herules. The only son not accounted for so far is Ezbon (Etsbon)
(Genesis
> 46;16) "Etsbon" of Gad fathered the Hasdingas42 who were a branch of
the
> Vandals who  marched together with the Goths43 and shared the same
dialect
> and customs. A branch of the Hasdingas participated in the
Anglo-Saxon
> invasions of Britain where they were known as Hastings44.
> Ezbon was also called Ozni (Numbers 26;16) whose name is found in
that of
> Osnabruch which is in west Germany but was once Frankish territory.
The
> name "Etsbon" is recognizable in the Bastarnae and Hasdingas. The
Bastarnae
> seem to have disappeared somewhere in France. The Bastarnae had been
first
> reported as allied to the Goths and were referred to as "GALATIANS".
The
> appellation "Galatian" comes from the Hebrew "Galaadi" (i.e. Gilead)
which
> was the name of a grandson of Menasseh whose territory in the Land
of
> Israel had intermerged with the territory of Gad. In another sense
"GILEAD"
> and "Bashan" were names applied to the COMBINED territories east of
the
> Jordan of half-Menasseh, Reuben, and GAD (cf. Joshua 22;9):
>
> "And the children of Reuben and the children of Gad and the half
tribe of
> Manasseh returned, and departed from the children of Israel out of
Shiloh,
> which is in the land of Canaan, to go unto the country of Gilead, to
the
> land of their possession, whereof they were possessed, according to
the
> word of the LORD by the hand of Moses" (Joshua 22:9).
>
>
>
> The Huguenots from Hugo or Haggi of Gad
>
>          The Huguenots are identified as the Calvinist Protestants
of
> France though they probably existed before Calvin. Ruth Shecter, an
author
> and researcher at the Beer Sheva University in Israel says that the
> Calvinists were basically Hebraic in character and mind-set.  The
Huguenots
> were persecuted and many of them fled to other lands. The name
"Huguenot"
> is derived from that of a legendary king named Hugon or HUGO. The
11th
> edition of the Encyclopedia Brittanica quotes from Henri Estienne
(1566)
> who said that the Protestants at Tours used to assemble at night
near the
> gate of King Hugo whom the people regarded as a spirit. A monk in a
sermon
> said that the Protestants should be called Huguenots since like the
> spirit-king Hugo they only went out at night. They were therefore
called
> Huguenots and the name became popular from 1560 onwards. "HUGO" WAS
INDEED
> THE SOURCE OF THE NAME! The chief concentrations of Huguenots today
in
> France are in Vendee in the west (once known as Pictavia), in the
region of
> Paris, and in regions situated along the course of the Rhone River
in the
> southeast. In the past Strasbourg in the east was once important. As
> mentioned the Huguenots were persecuted and suffered from massacres
and
> expulsions. After 1685 about 400,000 Huguenots emigrated to Prussia,
> Holland, Britain, Switzerland, and North America. Among the Boer
> (Dutch-dominated) settlers of South Africa were many of Huguenot
origin.
>          The legend of King HUGO was known from the southeast area
of
> France. The Huguenots displayed strong Israelite characteristics,
appear to
> have been mainly of one ethnic cast, and came from areas in France
where
> the Goths of Gad had once been present: The southeast of France was
once
> called "Gothia" due to the Goths having ruled and settled there.
Amongst
> the Goths there movements to Judaize. They themselves believed that
they
> were descended from Israel. Jews from this region were also called
"Goth"
> and the terms "Jew" and "Goth" were used synonymously! The historian
Arhur
> J. Zuckerman believed that Jews were referred to as "Goths": because
they
> often came from the region of Narbonne which was also known as
> "Gothia".  One opinion holds that many of the Goths in southeast
France and
> Spain at some early stage converted to Judaism!  A few Jewish
Marranos
> became Hugeonots. The Hugeonots on the whole were a very positive
and
> valuable element in French society. During the Second World War the
> Hugeonots of France and the Calvinists of Holland probably more than
any
> other group risked their lives to save Jews from extermination by
the Germans.
>
> GAD IN JUDAIC SOURCES
>
>          Jacob (Israel) the patriarch prophesied of Gad, "A troop
overcame
> him: but he shall overcome at the last" (Genesis 49;19). This
Prophecy was
> perhaps exemplified when the Huns' hordes overcame the Goths and
forced
> them to participate in the western invasions. On Attila's death a
revolt by
> the Goths and their Gepid kin destroyed the Hun domination46. The
great
> commentator Don Isaac Abarbanel47, after analyzing and weighing all
the
> Biblical verses referring to Gad, came to (the inferred) conclusion
that
> Gad would be numerous and divided into many groups which,
nevertheless,
> would maintain some form of contact and be capable of concerted
action.
> Historically, this concept did fit the Gothic peoples though it is
> difficult to see what applicability it could possibly have today.
According
> to the Zohar48 the animal-symbol of the Tribe of Gad was the kid of
a sheep
> or goat. This was based on the word for KID, "GADI", which is
similar to
> Gad. Similarly the Goths of history are said to have had a GOAT as
their
> symbolic-animal49. The name "GAD" in Biblical Hebrew is also
connected to
> the word for groups or legions and also for deity50 and the Goths of
> history interpreted their name to mean "People (Chosen) of God"51.
Popular
> traditions (such as that related by John Mandeville, 1499)
identified the
> GOTHS of history with the LOST TEN TRIBES OF ISRAEL:.
>          Midrashic opinion holds that the Tribes over the Jordan
which
> included Gad, Reuben, and half Menasseh were the first to be exiled
and
> that they like the other tribes will be redeemed in the future.
>          Historically, Goths and Gothic clans and sub-tribes were
shown as
> having been present in both the Scythian areas and in Scandinavia.
From
> Scythia they disappeared but their descendants, as a recognizable
entity,
> remain in Scandinavia. The migratory connection between Scythia and
> Scandinavia is reflected in the Mythology of Odin that relates how
people
> from the Don River area in southern Russia migrated to Scandinavia.
>          The Tribe of Reuben had neighbored GAD and was exiled with
it.
> Consequently, a certain overlapping may be noticed between groups
> identified as part of Gad and those seen to have come from Reuben.
REUBEN
> appears to have been the dominating factor in the FRANK federations
of West
> European history. Apart from Scandinavia, the second most important
area of
> GOTHIC settlement was in southern France (Septimania) in the region
> surrounding the city of Narbonne, which province was known as
"GOTHIA", and
> here too, the FRANKS (of Reuben) adjoined the Goths of Gad.
>
>
> PEOPLES OF GAD
> GAD  a name for Goth.
>
> Gudos was also a name for the Goths.
> Getae were a Gothic group in the Balkans and Scandinavia or the name
is
> just another form of Goth.
>
> Guti was a name for the Goths both in Scandinavia and east of the
Caspian
> though some modern historians incorrectly transliterate the name
(from
> Chinese characters) as "Yueh-chi".
>
> Guthones = Goths on Baltic coast.
> Gautoi in Scandinavia.
>   Gadrosia in Iran.,
> Gad was a name for Goths and an identifying root in Gothic toponomy.
> Pasargadoi meant "Sons of Gad" in ancient Iran.
> Thatagydes in ancient Afghanistan: "Thata-" represented the Teutons
and
> "Gydes" the Goths.
> Gadeni in Scotland.
> Gaedhal in ancient Scotland and Ireland.
> Geddingas were an Anglo-Saxon associated sub-tribe.
>
>
> CLANS OF GAD:
>
> Ziphion
>          Thaifalli (Gothic allies from Scythia migrated to France),
>
> Haggi  (Chaggi)
> Chauci   (Franks also known as "Hugo", and as "Hocing").   Yngling
> (Sweden), Cauci (Ireland).
> Hugeonots of France named after a legendary "Hugo" identifiable as
"Haggi"
> of Gad.
>
> Shuni: (Suni)
>          Suiones (Sweden).
> Etsbon
>             Bastarnae (Gothic Galatian group moved to France),
Astings,
> Hastings (Vandal group invaded England and Scotland).
> Ozni
>          Osnabruch (Frankish Germany).
>
>
> Eri: (Geri)
>            Grani (Sweden), Greotingi (Goths, Sweden).
>
> Arodi (Ha-Arodi)
>             Harudi (Norway), Hreadgoths (Scandinavia).
>
> Areli (Ha-Eruli)
>          Eruli (Herules) -associated with Goths, Sweden.
>
> Guni
>          Chouni (Huns), see Guni of Naphtali (Egan -Denmark,
> Gugerni-  Holland).
>
>
> Israeli stamp showing a camp of tents. This was one of the
traditional
> symbols of Gad.


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