[gothic-l] Reidgotaland

[Bertil Häggman]

Troels,

Thank you for your mail underneath. My four examples
are all connected to Ukraine. Personally I think
that the remigration had a lot to do with the
transferral of the history of these events.
The background of the Ukrainian connection
is the Kievan Rus, much more important than
the Novgorod = Ostrogard Ruzziae according
to adam of Bremen. Novgorod was anyway
ruled by Volodimer the Great (975-1015 and
Jaroslaw th eWise (1010-1054).

The runestones provide much of interest - I am
thinking now of course particularly of the
Roek Runestone. One researcher who has
published extensively and done much to
change the often narrow academic view of
sagas and chronicles is Dr. Mats G. Larsson:

"Runinskrifternas stora vaerde för forskningen
ligger i att de aer samtida med de haendelser
de berättar om (not all on Roek, though). Annan
information fraan tiden har oeverfoerts med
muntlig tradition innan de nedskrevs...Runstenarnas
vaerde som kaellor begraensas aa andra sidan av att deras
uppgifter aer saa knapphaendiga."

>From _Ett oedesdigert vikingataag_ (1997, omtryck)

In his book on the Rus (_Rusernas rike_) and the birth Russia
Larsson used of course the Nestor chronicle but also Icelandic
sagas and Arabic documents. Sagas and chronicles can always
be used as source material, but with caution, of course, and
interpretation. 

As the Reidgotaland anyway may have been a mythic land, it does
not have to be placed geographically with exactness.
Gotaland sounds very much like Goetaland, so it
could be south Scandinavia. It could be on Jutland,
on the north German coast, in Ukraine, somewhere else
in central Europe and so on and so forth.

Much speaks for Goetaland as it seems reasonable to
assume that Reidgotaland was used for Goetaland
(and maybe later Jutland) corresponding to a reality
750 AD to 850 AD, during the Viking Age proper.
But what about say 300 AD to 650 AD, it could have
corresponded to another reality. The Huns = Avars, which
could indicate that Reidgotaland could be placed north
of the Avar realm. From 800 AD to 850 AD southern
Jutland with Hedeby (Haithabu), was the economic
and cultural/political center of Denmark. Snorra Edda
identified Reidgotaland with Jutland. So in this timeframe
Reidgotaland could be Jutland, a movable term. The Goetar
always connected with the Goths and the Great Migration
period (which is indicated on the Roek Stone). The Oestgoetar
and Vaestgoetar and the Gotlanders considered during
the Viking Era the Goths to be their ancestors.

Gothically

Bertil




Thank you for a lot of good information and ideas.

Bertil must be right that the Scandinavians at a certain time 
combined Hreidgoths with locations in Eastgermanic legends - possibly 
being transferred to Scandinavia by people who were a part of these 
events. I am not quite sure from Bertil's examples if these were all 
located in Ukraine or in Central Europe - or they were moved from 
Ukraine to Central Europe by a people like the Ostrogoths, the 
Alanes, the Gepides, the Heruls (who even continued to Scandinavia) 
and other people.

We can't say if the Hreidgoths and the legends were originally a part 
of real events, or they were later combined in Scandinavia. The man 
who made the Roek-stone probably knew who they were, but I am not 
sure that Snorri and the other later writers knew that.  

I believe they lived somewhere at the Continent. However we still 
have to find a satisfying connection to Hreidmare and Eygoths. It is 
difficult to explain both these names if the Hreidgoths lived in 
Ukraine - and it is too easy to claim that there was no connection.

Below Bertil mentioned the name Danp from Rigsthula as an eponym to 
Don. Dan and Danp were mentioned as better vikings than Rig and his 
son Kon. Did Dan and the Danes come from the river Don too? 

Bertil! We have now discussed Ases and Hreidgoths at river Don. Has 
this anything to do with the theory of Thor Heyerdahl, which you have 
defended? Is he looking at the right period? 




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