[gothic-l] Austrian and Yiddish language

[keth at ONLINE.NO]

Hi Angelique!
I also have heard a lot of spoken Austrian, and I can affirm
that it is rather different from "hochdeutsch".

For example "der Nacht", "die Naechte" -- I agree that the
unlauted "a" in the second word, is much more like an "e" than
like an "æ/ae". I once knew an American who had emigrated to the
U.S.A. around 1930, and who came from somewhere in the neighborhood
of Königsbergen. I still distinctly recall that he pronounced the
umlauted "a" much more like an "æ" (=a-e-ligature) than I was used
to from my interactions with Austrians and people from West Germany.
But I never actually found out whether this difference in pronounciation
was merely a result of my friend's long stay in the United States, or
some other effect. But I am inclined to assume that it is the way
they used to pronounce it far N-E in Germany. (Prussian?)



>>
>> I will have to defer to your knowledge as a native speaker, but my
>> understanding was that in Standard German, ae was pronounced as in
>> English "hat" when in closed syllables, but identically with the

I think the Austian ä/ae is much more like an "e" in the same language,
than like the "a" in English "hat". The latter I regard as an example
of the a-e-ligature sound, the way it is pronounced in Norwegian.
But note that the Norwegian a-e-ligature sound is often a long vowel.
(examples: ære/aere -  sær/saer (like in særdeles)), whereas the
"a" in English "hat" is only an example of a short vowel of the same quality.
(maybe "sad" is an example of the long æ-sound in English.)

>(non-
>> schwa) <e> in open ones. Do you disagree with this?

I also have difficulty relating to things like "schwa" and "open",
etc.. But when I concentrate real hard, I do recall that the
European/non-British
"a" is often described as an open vowel, and that it refers to the mouth
being kept "open", i.e. the jaws being far apart -- as if you are pronouncing
a European "a" with your chin dropping down to your chest -- very much the sound
the doctor wants you to make when he wants to look at your tongue.
"closed" is the opposite of "open", and ought to indicate the jaws
being kept much closer together.

(in such a way that you can only eat pancakes ;)
sorry -- I couldn't resist the joke!  :-)

>
>
>Hm, well, I have never looked at the German language with this
>grammer things.
>I just speak it.*lol*
>But yes, "officially" "ae" ist pronounced like "a" in "hat", like if
>one spells something, or so.
>
>What do you mean with "closed syllables"?
>And "(non-schwa) <e> "?????
>Sorry, I have no idea about grammar, however I know what syllables
>are ;-)
>
>
>>
>> The spelling represents the YIVO orthography... Yiddish is of
>course
>> normally written in the Hebrew alphabet. YIVO aimed to be as
>phonetic
>> as possible, and to avoid German-style orthography (e.g. using <kh>
>> instead of <ch>)

I once took a look at a Yiddish text, and knowing German, it wasn't
too difficult to read. The difficulty was only that it was mixed
with some Hebrew words here and there.

Gothic is however something entirely different.
(Even if you are very good at German, it is not enough.
Gothic is like an entirely new language)


>
>Oh, interesting!
>
>
>> >
>> > However the words mentioned above are very close to the Austrian
>> > pronouncation of the written German.
>> > So all Austrians are Jewish?
>> > *ROFL*
>>
>> You're not the first Austrian to tell me this ;)
>
>
>Oh, the Jews and the Austians...old story...
>if they had nothing in common at all, they would not have had
>problems with each other....
>
>
>> Zay gezunt un gotish,
>> Moyshe Dovid Mansfeld (IUSTEINUS)
>
>gotisch was i net, ob i bin...
>oba bleib ma a sche xund und lustig!

I think your sentence shows quite well how much spoken Austrian
actually differs from "hochdeutsch":
"Gotisch weiß ich nicht, ob ich bin...
aber bleib mal schön gesund und lustig!

(vielleicht hab' ich auch nicht alles richtig verstanden ;)


>Dei Angelique

Schoene Gruesse
Keth



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