[gothic-l] Re: Gepids

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at y..., czobor at c... wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at y..., keth at o... wrote:
>
> > ...
> > I see, however, that Gothic has very few words that begin on p.
> > But there are many words that begin on f.
>
> This is due to the fact that, after the first (common-Germanic)
> consonant shift, I.E. *b became *p and I.E. *p became *f. In
> Indo-European *b was a rare sound, and consequently *p is a rare
> sound in Germanic.
>
> > I also remember from
> > Old Norse that the language often vacillates between p and f for
> > a given sound (e.g. eptir/eftir).
>
> According to my handbook of Old-Icelandic, "pt" is only a graphy,
and
> it's pronounced [ft].
>
> > Hence it seems to me that one
> > may equally well look for a Gothic word that begins on an f, and
> > has a meaning that is related to slowness. But I was unable to
> > find any. Then it strikes me that sometimes there is also a close
> > relationship between p and b.
>
> Indeed, these sounds are related, being both bilabial stops.
> But Gmc. *b became p at the beginning of words only in some OHG
> dialects (e.g. pruoder "brother", part "beard").
>
> Regarding Iordanes' word "gepanta", it doesn't look very Gothic or
> Germanic to me. Not only the -p-, but also -nt- is unusual among the
> Germanic languages (IE *nt > Gmc. *nd or *nth). Maybe it's a
> misspelling or a corrupted form.
>
> Francisc


Hello Francisc,

I am not a linguist, but I noticed that in particular Langobards and
Bavarians have often replaced 'b' with 'p'. Thus, it is Langobardic
and Bavarian 'Luitprant' instead of Luitbrand and Aripert instead of
Aribert (Haribert). Also, one of the Langobardic origo legends states
that they came from the Elbe near Patersprunna (modern Paderborn). An
early 9th c. Bavarian text is called something like 'Wessoprunna
Prayer' instead of 'Wessobrun'.

This feature is still very much noticeable in modern Bavarian. As
Langobards and Bavarians were closely related this is not
surprising, but could this also have let to a change in the name of
the Gepids from perhaps originally Gebids. The author Heinrich Sevin,
argues that it is only sources influenced by the Goths that call them
Gebids, while other sources prefer Gebids.

cheers
Dirk





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