[gothic-l] Re: Gaut, Gapt & the Gepids

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

> 
> > > The question is if the gepids also if the Gepids
> > >  existed as a seperate people already in Scandza. 
> 
> No, they did not. They formed in the Vistula region around the 
Sambian
> peninsula as an multiochtonic unity originating from all of 
Scandinavia.
> This is convincingly shown by prof. Jerzy Okulicz-Kozaryn in 
Warszawa.


Hello again Ingemar,

can you give some details, how this prof. Okulicz-Kozaryn showed that 
the Gepids fromed out of people from all over Scandinavia? Is that 
based on archaeological finds? When is this migration supposed to have 
occured? In the 2nd/3rd century when the Gepids are thought to have 
formed? Most authors seem to belief that the Gepids formed out of 
remainders of (Pomeranian) Gutones who did not move to the south-East 
in the late 2nd century.
Consider for example this recent text by Prof. Makiewicz written for 
the European Commission in the context of the construction of the 
Jamal pipeline:


"....Recent archaeological research and lengthy debate on this subject 
have, established that the Wielbark Culture did not simply come into 
being as a result of the arrival of tribes from Scandinavia in 
Pomerania. Instead, it evolved from the development of the local 
Oksywie Culture (dating back to the 5th/6th century bc), possibly 
having been subject to outside influences from Scvandinavia. This is 
evidenced primarily by the fact that in its initial phase, the 
Wielbark Culture had exactly the same territorial extent as the 
Oksywie Culture, many cemeteries having been kept in continued use by 
these two societies.  Wielbark communities comprised mostly members of 
tribes already  settled in this area with the possible addition of 
Scandinavian migrants, who maybe arrived here in small groups.  At 
present, it is thought that those areas which were inhabited directly 
by Gothic peoples are characterised by the presence of extensive 
barrow cemeteries of the Odry-Wêsiory-Grzybnica type, at which stone 
circles consisting of large boulders were raised. These were sites of 
a ritual character where tribal meetings (known as things) took place. 
Sites of this type are found in the Kashubian and Krajeñski Lakelands, 
extending to the Koszalin region in the Central Lakelands, hence, to 
the west of the Vistula. These burial grounds began to  appear across 
this area during the latter part of the first century ad, at the same 
time that the Kowalewko cemetery was founded."

Makievicz also pointed out that :

" Another marked change took place
during the first half of the third century ad, when the Wielbark 
Culture withdrew  from Greater Poland and from virtually the whole of 
Pomerania, apart from those territories situated nearest the Vistula 
Estuary."

The Vistula-goths (or better carriers of the Wielbark culture who 
remained in the Vistula region) regrouped to form the Gepids and later 
also moved south-wards.


In short, Makiewicz and his team of Polish archaeologist think that 
the Wielbark culture is mainly the extention of an earlier local 
culture and developed in the Pomeranian/West Prussian area with the 
possible influence from groups from Scandinavia. This Wielbark culture 
dissappeared in the late 2nd century from Pommerania, apart from the 
Vistula region, where the remaining carriers of this culture formed 
into Gepids, who later also moved southwards.

cheers
Dirk











 



> 
> > A particularly good question since the notion of what constituted 
a 'separate
> > people'  no doubt depended on whether one were a third century 
Goth, a
> > classical historian, or a 21st century Gothophile.  I have always 
assumed
> > (intuitively!) that dialectical variation among eastern Germanic 
speakers was
> > slight, that Gothic (all flavors), Lombard, Burgundian, and 
Vandalic were
> > mutually intelligible in the first half of the first milennium and 
that, to
> > the East Germans themselves, ethnic differences were largely a 
question of
> > clan/tribal affinity.
> 
> I agree the laungage differences probably were small and e.g. the
> Burgundians and the Vandals most probably had a close common cultic
> background as the Goths,  having broken out from the same original
> pre-Gothic fertility league which earlier covered all Scandinavia, 
and
> Gaut may have been even their original transition god even if they 
did
> not attach his name to the tribe. This shows in their royal 
genealogies
> and in the ring-symbolism.I have treated this question latest in an
> article in English in Migracijske Teme  1-2, Zagreb 2000. 
> 
> Kind regards
> Ingemar


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