[gothic-l] Cultic leauges

[Ingemar Nordgren]

Dirk and Steve,
you wrote among else:

 For the> continental Gothones and the Scandinavian 'Goths'the god Gaut
(a
> Gautic tradition) may have played a significant role as focal point of
> worship.

> Before the christian era, Germanic> groups> > fit easily into a tribal structure, each tribe comprised of clans> who may> > have shared a patron deity and places of worship.  But clan> membership was> > determined by birth and lineage and not religious belief.
>
> In the first > century AD, I would be a Goth because of my parentage> and that, in> turn,> > would determine my gods.  Heather does an excellent job of> describing how the> > massive displacement of large segments of many different cultural> groups> > during the fourth and fifth centuries triggered a period of> intensive
> > cultural restructuring out of which emerged the Visigothic and> Ostrogothic> > groups.  That these derived predominatly from the Gothic populations> of SE > Europe is not seriously in question.  That the latter derived from> earlier> > groups situated in or around the Baltic littoral is not an
> unreasonable > question.

> > >> > >Therefore, saying that 'The> > >  Goths' came from this or that place is tantamount to saying that
> the> > >  Catholics came from Rome or the Lutherans came from Wittengerg.> What> > >  is important, is that for the transmission of such a cultic> identities> > >  you don't need a migration of people.
> >
> > This is true only if you accept the (false) thesis that gothicness> is a> > strictly religious construct.
>
> Ok, I may have overstated the point with my example, which was> intended to make it clearer. I don't belief that 'Gothicism' of the> first century is 'strictly' a religious concept, but it may have been> centered around a certain belief-system/ or Gautic tradition, which> may also have included people like the Lemovii, Warinii, who in this> sense could also say that they were Goths. Maybe Ingemar Nordgren, who> supported the concept of a Gothic cultic league in his book, will step> in at this point to elaborate on the concept.
> > >
> > >This view solves the problem> > >  with the different material cultures, and it led people like R.
> > >  Wenskus to come up with the concept of the 'traditional core', to> > >  which most authorative scholars like Wolfram seem to adhere.> > >> > >  Thus, the early Goths may have formed an entity similar to the
> Suevi> > >  and Vandilii-Lugian cultic groups. The Vandilii (Vandals)- Lugian> > >  groups incorporated tribes like the Harii, Helvecones, Manimi,> Helsii,> > >  Narhavales and later also the names Silingi and Asdingi appear in> this> > >  group. Both the Gothic and the Vandilii-Lugian groups most likely> > >  contained even Celtic parts as well as Germanic parts (see> Wolfram> > >  'History of the Goths').


Mainly I consider Dirk having grasped the idea better than Steve but
still there must be made some definitions to make clear what we are
talking about.

A cultic league for example must not, or rather should not, be connected
with overruling political power over the peoples being part of the
league. There are a number of politically independent
peoples/tribes/gentes who share the same cultic system. A soon as one
people takes command of the other the leauge is beginning to break down
to finally become  a wealth,realm, state or what you prefer. My thesis
says we originally before c:a 500 BC in Northern Europe and Scandinavia
had a number of tribes with fertility cult where the sun and the moon
were the main powers ruling the vegetational year. The king in
respective tribe/people was the reborn sungod  Ingr/Úllr. His title was
the sun-king which in Old Nordic is Svíakonungr and the tribes making up
this cultic leauge  was by outsiders called Suiþioþ, the sun people.
They all, I must underline, were politically independent with own sacral
kings ruling but they all had the same interest to keep the common
motivation for power - they were all the sun god reborn guaranteeing
fertility and crop.
When the conditions for agriculture grew worse and climate colder the
old chiefdoms were split up by new colonisation of small family farms
having their own fields and more depending on cattle living close to the
farm  and in stable during winter. This seriously diminished the
influence of the former chiefs and they had to seek new motivation for
power. Now Gaut  seems to be more actual as a probably both fertility
and schamanistic creator god. The new chiefs claimed genetical heritage
directly from Gaut and also saw him  as origin of the people. Like later
Óðinn the warriors were initiated to the god and in battle  and during
initiation the chief/king was in fact the god. This does not affect the
common people but just the warriors and cultic performers. It was part
of the service by the chief to arrange cultic secret men's leauges to
frighten demons from the field. In other ways the commoners continued to
worship the old fertility gods  but later Ingr changed name to Frejr and
Ingun to Freja with the coming continental cult of óðinn which merged
with the old cult of Gaut - also for warriors and chiefs only. These new
folks can be regarded as a new cultic leauge breaking loose from the old
and not politically united. They were named after their creator god but,
as I said, the commoners cultic habits did not change. A lot of royal
houses claim heritage after Gaut/Geat/Gausus et c. They all share one
thing - they provably originated in the Scandinavian and North German
area or claim haing done so. Accordingly Gaut is tied to Scandinavia
with surroundings and his old name still lives stromng in Sweden with
Westwern Gautland and Eastern Gautland and the Island of Gotland, former
Gutland.

The old leauge that started to fall together is indicated by Tacitus
pointing out the Semnones as organiser of the Suebian league. This is
but a rest of the old leauge and in fact it is only an almost succesfull
try to create a state ruled by the Semnones. The Nerthus tribes are also
remnants of this leauge. Suebes, accordingly, also are the sun people.

The common cultic tie for the Goths/Gauts/Gutones/Gutar/Ýtas(Jutes) is
accordingly the uniform motivation of power by their rulers. This cult,
as I have shown in my thesis, is also indirectly performed in the cult
of Ingr/Frejr, the popular cult. Hence also this cult is important for
power control. That's why Athanaric was so rude in  hunting Christian
Goths but not Roman Christians. The cult was the glue keeping up the
Gothic ethnicity and hence the willingness to accept the old sacral
king, whose late sucessor was Athanaric who performed the same functions
to keep the people united and to head denfence  when attacked. Later
the old cult was replaced by Arianism securing that the Roman influences
on the Goths was minor and so the reiks, kindins was no more, could
continue to rule by the old premises.

The cult and  claimed heritage of Gaut originates in Scandinavia but we
have no massive emigration. I would say regarding the archaeologucal
evidence I have found there ought to have been three separate
emigrations at least and all the time small groups. In the first round
people of Gotland and Östergötland/Småland should be involved  creating
trade posts in the amber trade and also known by Pytheas. This about
350-300 BC. Also the language  should come from that period. The second
group, both Swedes,Jutes and Norwegians - The Kattegat group - is due
about the beginning of our era and have a burial tradition like what you
find in West Sweden. The third part is the multiochtonous forming of the
Gepidic tribe around the Sambian peninsula with people from all over
Scandinavia and the former Wielbark culture. This   reshapes the
Wielbark culture to a cultic league of different tribes with different
biological ethnicity. Heather specially remarks that the whole culture
reminds of a cultic league.

As i see it also the Vandals and the Burgundians, possibly also the
Langobards, have broken from the same Suiþioþ leauge and  might have
been part of the Gautic tribes but not adapted the name of the God to
the tribe. In any case kings from these tribes claim origin from Gausus.
The Ring-cult is also tightly knotted just to Goths,Vandals and
Burgundians according to my Ring-name investigation in Migracijske Teme.

I hope this makes my position more clear. If I find a publisher willing
to print my book in English or German it would be much easier to explain
in depth.

Kindly
Ingemar

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