[gothic-l] Re: Names of Heruls

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at y..., "Einar Birgisson" <einarbirg at y...> wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at y..., dirk at s... wrote:
> > --- In gothic-l at y..., "Einar Birgisson" <einarbirg at y...> wrote:
> > > --- In gothic-l at y..., dirk at s... wrote:
> > > > --- In gothic-l at y..., Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm at s...> 
wrote:
> > > > >  
> > Hi Einar,
> > 
> > unfortunately it is never as simple as that. 
> > 
> > Procopius, as educated Greek had access to the writings of ancient 
> > geographers. Every educated Greek knew about the the story of the 
> > mid-night sun in Thule and Scandza and every educated Greek 
> expected 
> > this description to come up in a report about these areas. The 
same 
> is 
> > true for several tribal names. Procopius simply copied the 
> > relevant passages from the sources at his disposal, showing off 
his 
> > education and satisfying the expectations of this readers. 
> > 
> > I cited his report about Britain not because I think that he 
> confused 
> > it with Thule, as you seem to have mis-understood me; but because 
> it 
> > shows that he new very little about northern Europe in general and 
> the 
> > location of Thule and Britain in particular. This, is by the way 
> the 
> > accepted interpretation. 
> > 
> > cheers,
> > Dirk
> 
>   Einar; Hæ Dirk.                                                    
 
> 
> These are all speculations. 

No, these are not speculations, but the results of analyses conducted 
by scholars who know a great deal more about this than the two of us. 


You can not have any idea about what 
> educated Greeks were expecting. And you have no idea of the 
> intentions of Procopius. Neither you nor anybody else.


Again, I suggest you read some of the modern scholars who analysed 
Procopius' writing and other contemporary works, before coming up with 
  statements like this. In fact, a great deal is known about 
Procopius' intentions, outlook, political views. Also a great deal is 
known about the general state of knowledge among educated Byzantines 
of that time. 





> 
> And are you saying that there were these ancient geographers that 
> were so unreliable? 

I never said that ancient geographers were unreliable. I was only 
writing about Procopius who was not a geographer.



>Must be if Procopius just copied from them?

Procopius used many sources, some of them reliable, others less so. 
Bits about the mid-night sun in Thule and Scandia were common-place in 
 the mediterranean world and they add not a jota of extra credibility 
to Procopius story.



> 
> And maybe you can support your claims with evidence.                 


Well, at least I have cited passages from Procopius that demonstrate 
my case extremely well. Speaking of evidence, perhaps you want to come 
up with something in that line yourself for once. 

I know, for you Procopius just has to be reliable, his story just has 
to be true no matter what arguments and evidence casts doubt on it, 
because you want to promote you theory according to which  the Heruls 
went on to settle in Iceland. On the way to achieve that you bash 
together all sorts of indications that suit you and discard anything 
that stands in your way.

Your argument would benefit greatly from a bit more open-mindedness 
and especially from a bit more up-front information. 


cheers,
Dirk





 


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