[gothic-l] Re: Early Germanic place-names in today Poland

[faltin2001]

Hi Ryszard,

that is really very interesting. I think one ineresting conclusion, 
if indeed Babik's etymologies are correct, would be that at least 
some Germanic people stayed in the area of modern Poland long after 
the Goths, Vandals etc. are supposed to have left. Thus, the bulk of 
Goths and Vandals are believed to have left the areas between Vistula 
and Oder sometime at the end of the 2nd century, which is by and 
large supported by archaeological evidence. Yet, Slavs have arrived 
there only around 500AD. To explain the name continuity, some sort of 
contact must have taken place and small groups of ancient Germans 
seemed to have stayed in their homelands until the arrival of the 
Slavs. Looking at Eastern Germany, Germanic placenames have 
definitely survived the slavisation of the area from about 600AD. In 
fact, I think most river names in Brandenburg, Saxony and 
Mecklenburg/West-Pommerania, are Germanic. In addition, evidence has 
been uncovered where Slavic settlements continued on Germanic 
settlements, meaning that the Germanic settlement might still have 
been occupied when the Slavs arrived.

cheers,
Dirk






--- In gothic-l at y..., "Ryszard Derdzinski" <galadhorn at i...> wrote:
> Heils!
> 
> Reikhardus again! I hope this information can be valuable for all 
these who
> are interested in the earliest history of Goths and Vandals. 
Zbigniew Babik
> in his "Najstarsza warstwa nazewnicza na ziemiach polskich" ('The 
Oldest
> Onomastic Layer In The Territory of Poland'), Cracow 2001, 
enumerates many
> place-names with Early Germanic etymology (he also provides us with 
a map of
> these names - I can send it to you via e-mail).
> 
> It should be noted that these names occur mainly in two regions: in
> north-east Poland (Pomorze, Kujawy) and in south-west Poland 
(Silesia).
> These regions are usually connected with Gothic and Vandalic 
(Lugian)
> settlement in antiquity.
> 
> The Early Germanic (East Germanic?) names in today Poland are 
according to
> Babik as follows:
> 
> 1. River-names ending with _-bok_ < Early Germanic _*-baki_ 'brook' 
(German
> 'Bach'):
> 
> [Polish] _Klodobok_ (Silesia) < [Early Germanic] _*Kalda-baki-_ (or
> _*Kalda-bakja_) 'cold-brook'; cf. German _Kaltbach_
> 
> _Drybok_ (near Tczew) < _*?-baki-_ '?-brook' (the first element may 
be
> pre-Germanic)
> 
> _Lusobok_ (Silesia) < _*lausa-baki-_ 'empty, poor brook'
> 
> _Olobok_ (rivers near Kalisz and Krosno) < _*?-baki-_ '?-brook' 
(the first
> element may be pre-Germanic)
> 
> 2. River-names ending with _-awa_ < Early Germanic _*-ahwó_ 'river' 
> Goth.
> _*-ahva_:
> 
> _Bierawa_ (Silesia), _Centawa_ (Silesia), _Dokawa_ (Silesia), 
_Mierzawa_
> (Little Poland), _Moltawa_ (Pomerania), _Olawa_ (Silesia), _Opawa_
> (Silesia), _Oslawa_ (Little Poland), _Pilawa_ (Silesia), _Radawa_ 
(Silesia),
> _Smortawa_ (Silesia), _Stobrawa_ (Silesia), _Szprotawa_ (Silesia), 
_Tymawa_,
> _Tyrnawa_, _Widawa_ (Silesia), _Wiszczawa_
> 
> 3. Lake-names ending with _-ag_, _-adz_ < Early Germanic _*-u/inga-
_:
> 
> _Wdzydze_ (a lake near Gothic stone circles in Odry and Wesiory and 
in the
> area of Wielbark culture) < _*widu?-inga_ 'forest?-lake'
> 
> _Trlag_ < _*Tru(l)l-unga_ 'Troll-lake'
> 
> _Wieldzadz_ < _*Wilthj-i/unga_ 'Wild-lake'
> 
> _Grudziadz_ < _*?-i/unga_ (sometimes connected with Gothic 
_Greutingi_)
> 
> _Zblag_ < _*Stibl?-inga_
> 
> 4. _Skrwa_ < Old Polish _Strkwa_ < Goth. _*Struka_ 'brook, river' 
(cf. ON
> _strjúka_ 'sich rasch bewegen', N _stryk_, _strok_)
> 
> 5. _Goplo_ (lake) having the same etymology like ON _Gøpul_, Swedish
> _Gapern_ < _Gapeln_.
> 
> 6. _Trloga_ < _*Tru(l)lag-_ '[river, marsh] of the troll(s)' (_*-ag-
_ is a
> relational
> element in Germanic)
> 
> 7. _Nysa_ < _*Nós-aha?_ (from EGerm. _*nós-_ 'nose > fjord')
> 
> 8. _Scinawa_ (Silesia) < _*Stain-ahva_? 'Stone-river'
> 
> 9. _Wlodawa_ (Wielbark culture area) < _*Walth-(a)hwó_ 'Forest-
river'.
> 
> 10. _Pelta_; cf. Norse and German names coming from Germanic 
_*Fulthó_.
> 
> NOTE: Polish place-names have been simplified - I don't use special 
Polish
> letters which cannot be properly expressed on this website.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Reikhardus
> (Ryszard Derdzinski)
> 
> maggot at s... or galadhorn at i...
> 
> "Gwaith-i-Phethdain" http://www.elvish.org/gwaith
> "Polish Tolkien Society" http://www.parmadili.w.pl
> "Silesian Homeland" 
http://necik.mag.com.pl/~galadhorn/slask/index.htm
> "Sindarin Dictionary": http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/gobeth.htm


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