[gothic-l] Re: Eruli

[Troels Brandt <trbrandt@post9.tele.dk>]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh at y...> wrote:
>
> --- "Troels Brandt <trbrandt at p...>" > > BTW
> (GK)Mahomedov follows the view that the Eruli were
> > > tossed out of Scandinavia by the Danes and split
> > into
> > > two groups, one settling on the Rhine and the
> > other
> > > going East and joining the Goths.*****
> >
> >(Troels) Among the historians this interpretation of
> Jordanes
> > is outdated -
> > and this was the only background for the theory -
> > but of course this
> > does not exclude a Scandinavian origin.
>
> *****GK: M. cites R. Laser as his authority. Yes, this
> is a work of 1983. But his use of more recent ideas on
> these and related issues is interesting. He is quite
> familiar, for instance, with the notions of Wolfram,
> Bierbrauer, Kokowski (of course since the Lublin
> scholar published M's book!), Kazanski etc. etc.. and
> cites them copiously in other contexts. He tries to
> avoid controversy where he can, so when he follows
> "outdated" interpretations, this means that he finds
> the older view more persuasive. I suspect that e.g.
> with regard to the Eruli, the significant quantity of
> Scandinavian material discovered in the Chernyakhiv
> sites suggested the connection to him and prompted the
> fall back on the earlier view.*****

Hi George

I am glad he is openminded.

The linguists claim, that the wording in the introduction of Getica
indicates that Jordanes mentioned a recent event. I do not know if
this is correct, but as he described an ethymology of their name
connected to the swamps at the Black Sea, it is difficult to explain
why he should describe a Scandinavian origin in the introduction.
Actually he did not call Scandinavia an origin.

As I wrote this does not exclude a Scandinavian origin, but maybe
Mahomedov's observations just indicate that both the Goths and the
Harii had close Scandinavian family- or trade-relations - or that
Scandinavian groups had joined the Goths bringing with them a
religious influence from the Gautoi as Ingemar has suggested. I think
we shall avoid that old discussion for some time, but the Harii could
be such a group though Tacitus believed they were Lugii.

If we assume that Mahomedov's Tanais-group were the Harii/Heruls, the
warriors could have left some tribemembers back in the Tanais-region,
just like also the Goths and the Alans joining the Huns left people
behind them at the Black Sea. When some of the Huns returned around
450 AD, the Germanic people may have concentrated at Crimea, which
they could more easily defend and escape by sea if necessary - but
this is a subject, I have not investigated.

What is the title of Mahomedov's book - and the language?

Troels


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