[gothic-l] Re: "Eruli", "Goths", "Danes" and wherefrom the runes

[george knysh]

--- "konrad_oddsson <konrad_oddsson at yahoo.com>"
<konrad_oddsson at yahoo.com> wrote:
 Also, no recognized
> sequence of changes in
> Germanic linguistics (at least that I am aware of)
> is going to make
> a connection between "erilaz" and either "herul-" or
> "harj-". The
> form "herul-" could, of course, be corrupt.

*****GK: Quite so as to "harj-". As to the connection
between *erilaz and the Latinized Heruli the analysis
of Piotr Gasiorowski (given on this list a couple of
days ago) seems pretty conclusive. Here it is again:

"The Latin <h> in "Heruli" _is_ hypercorrect if Runic
> <erilaz> and the related Northwest Germanic 'man of
> worth' words (OE eorl, ON jarl, OS erl, all <
> *erlaz) have anything to do with this name (which is
> the received opinion). Quasi-ablaut variation
> involving *i ~ *u ~ *a ~ zero is common in Germanic
> suffixes, so if both *er-la- and *er-ila- occur,
> *er-ula- may easily occur as well (cf. *xak-il-o: ~
> *xak-ul-o: 'flax-comb, hackle'), and no help from
> the Greeks is required. The suffix seems to be
> primarily adjectival, as in *mikila- 'great' (cf.
> Gk. megalo-). It is _not_ diminutive.*****
>
> > PS With regards to the overall discussion, I find
> the attribution
> of certain house types (3-naved long houses) to the
> Heruli highly
> questionable. Three-naved long houses, were common
> in many Germanic
> areas. Similarly, iron combs are found in the
> Wielbark culture and
> among other groups. If anything they likely had a
> geographical
> distribution not an ethnic distribution. The same is
> true for
> the 'grosse monstroese' Fibula-type. This fibula has
> a fairly wide
> distribution and cannot be linked to one specific
> tribe the the
> Heruli.
>
>(Konrad) I agree. The distribution must be
geographical
> rather than ethnic.

*****GK: As the discussion unfolded I noted that even
Mahomedov thought that it was quite difficult to
identify the various "Germanic" components of the
Chernyakhiv culture, except for the "Goths". I'll try
to check his article on 3-naved houses to see if there
is anything there worthy of being reported. It does
seem, however, that the Eastern Heruli have become
archaeologically elusive again. So we'll have to fall
back on other criteria. To begin with, there can be
absolutely no doubt that there WERE Heruli in the
East. The historical record is there. It follows that
they must have left some traces of their presence. If
there are no specific archaeological markers which
enable us to locate them, this may be due to the fact
that they were a newly constituted group of mixed
membership (as to arch. traits). To be investigated:
(1) do the Eruli and Borani ever appear together? If
not are the Eruli a new name for the erstwhile Borani?
(2) what are the implications of Kazanski's article
about Scandinavian warrior burials in the southern
Crimea from the time of the activity there of Borani
and Heruli?
(3) are the Heruli the only known Germanic ethnos
active for a time in the south which subsequently
migrated to Scandinavia?


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