[gothic-l] Re: "Eruli", "Goths", "Danes" and wherefrom the runes

[Dr. Dirk Faltin <dirk@smra.co.uk>]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Einar Gunnar Birgisson
<einarbirg at y...>" <einarbirg at y...> wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "gunnerwold <gunnerwold at y...>"
> <gunnerwold at y...> wrote:
> > Hello Bob, Troels and everyone. Just a few comments on the Odin
> > discussion.
> > >
> > > Troels writes:
> > > > As far as I can see you have just argued that Odin could
easily
> > be a king/chieftain/ancestor like Abraham.
> >
> > I don't think so. My major was in forestry, but I also took a lot
> of
> > anthropology in college - enough to have looked at ancestor
worship
> > in many cultures. Odin doesn't really fit the bill. First the
kings
> > claimed him as their patron to strengthen their power, then as
time
> > passed they claimed actual descent from the god. Christians later
> > took advantage of these silly claims by heathen kings and used it
> to
> > prove that their chief god was really a man. This scenario is
often
> > repeated in converted cultures. It happens during the
transitional
> > period. Later the cultural traditions are forgotten and replaced
by
> > Hebrew ones from the Bible. This is also what happened to the
> Goths,
> > at least as far as I can tell. Odin and the other viking gods
were
> > the same ones the original Goths worshipped before their culture
> was
> > destroyed through assimilation.
>
>
> ### Hej and excuse me being unprepared for the discussion but if
the
> Asa religion is a Gothic heritage! then why did it went prominent
in
> Scandinavia?


Einar,

the Asa religion is not a Gothic heritage! We know very little about
Gothic paganism, but one thing is certain. The Goths were the first
Germanic people to convert to Christianity, already from the late 3rd
century onwards.




> As the Heruli were a Gothic people it must be assumed
> that their arrival brought some elements from Gothic culture to
> Scandinavia.


Again, the Goths of the 5th/6th century were Christians! In fact, a
large part of the Heruls were likely also Christians, some of them
even Catholocs as is suggested by tomb stone inscriptions from
Concordia (see Fibinger). Those Heruls who had retained paganism, had
likely nothing to do with the Asir gods, but from the archaeological
remains of the Hegykoe group likely followed a syncretic form of
steppe-nomadic Shamanism and Germanic and other paganism.

Those Heruls who went to Italy after their defeat in 509AD, were
likely Arian Christians. They also must have included the highest
ranking members of the Herulic royal clan, because otherwise they
would not have been received by Theoderic. Similarly, those Heruls
who joined the Langobards, may partly have been Christians. The
remaining group which wondered around, starving and suffering abuse
and defeat by Gepids likely included those Herulic elements which
were composed of steppe nomads of ethinic
Hunnic/Mongolic/Turkic/Alanic origin. The non-germanic names of their
later federate kings like Grepes, Ochos, and probably Datius and
Aordos would support this view. We must not forget that the Heruls
were a multi-ethnic group. The non-Germanic and non-Christian
components of the Heruls likely found it most difficult to seek
integration among Langobards and Ostrogoths, which would have been
the normal course of action otherwise.

Cheers
Dirk




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