[gothic-l] Re: "Eruli", "Goths", "Danes" and wherefrom the runes

[Dr. Dirk Faltin <dirk@smra.co.uk>]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm at s...>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >Einar,
> >
> >the Asa religion is not a Gothic heritage! We know very little
about
> >Gothic paganism, but one thing is certain. The Goths were the first
> >Germanic people to convert to Christianity, already from the late
3rd
> >century onwards.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>  As the Heruli were a Gothic people it must be assumed
> >>  that their arrival brought some elements from Gothic culture to
> >>  Scandinavia.
> >
> >
> >Again, the Goths of the 5th/6th century were Christians! In fact, a
> >large part of the Heruls were likely also Christians, some of them
> >even Catholocs as is suggested by tomb stone inscriptions from
> >Concordia (see Fibinger). Those Heruls who had retained paganism,
had
> >likely nothing to do with the Asir gods, but from the
archaeological
> >remains of the Hegykoe group likely followed a syncretic form of
> >steppe-nomadic Shamanism and Germanic and other paganism.
> >
> >Those Heruls who went to Italy after their defeat in 509AD, were
> >likely Arian Christians.
>
>
> Dirk,
> Where do you find the reference that some Heruls went to Italy
after
> their defeat.
>
> My references say Illyria ( close to present day Belgrad) and Thule
>
> The defeat is normally put at about 505. Where do you find the year
509?
>
> Tore

Tore,

the dating of the defeat of the Heruls was revised to 508/9, by
Andreas Schwarcz. He explained the dating in detail either on this
list or the Germanic-L earlier. Procopius knew only of Heruls who
first starved, then sought shelter with the Gepids, who abused them
and finally asked the Romans to grant them shelter in Illyrium. From
this group Procopius explaines that another group split up to seek
refuge at the end of the world, in Thule.

The only other historian who reported these events, (Marcellinus
Comes), of course knew nothing about the Thule story. Instead he
confirmed in a matter of fact way, that defeated Heruls asked the
Emperor to grant them land and protection in Illyrium.

Yet, the Ostrogothic sources, I think Cassiodorus' Variae (Andreas
Schwarcs provided the exact source earlier on the Germanic-L) show
that a part of the defeated Heruls fled to Italy, where they were
received by Theoderic. The fact that they were received by Theoderic
led to the conclusion by scholars like Pohl, that these Heruls likely
included high ranking members of the royal clan. Also, Procopius did
not report that another part of the Heruls was intergrated into the
the Langobardic tribe, which can, however, be gleaned from the
subsequent events, as set out by W. Pohl and others. These Heruls
likely included the most prominent members of the royal clan, like
the Rodulf'daughter Silinga.

Overall, it is clear that the remaining Heruls, who survived the
defeat of 508/9 were not separted into two groups as suggested by
Procopius, but, combining the sources shows that their remainders
were split up into at least 4 different groups: Italian Heruls,
Langobardic Heruls, Illyrian Heruls, Thule Heruls, and probably also
Gepidic Heruls as well. In fact, they were scattered all over the
region, which neither group strong enough to create a new independent
kingdom.

Dirk



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