[gothic-l] Gothic Christianity

[Tore Gannholm]

>What is interesting here, I think, is not so much the
>indubitable fact of the Christianization of most Goths
>after the fall of the Attilanic Empire (and many
>groups were Christian even earlier), but the specific
>nature of Gothic Christianity. Especially the
>interplay between Arianism and Orthodoxy. The earliest
>Gothic Christians (whose bishop attended the Council
>of Nicea) were apparently not Arian.

George,
What makes you believe the the Gothic bishop at Nicea was not Arian.
As far as I understand the meeting in Nicea 325 was mainly a battle
between Arians and Orthodox although there were many other
denominations present and the Arians lost.

Constantine who had problem holding the empire together had realized
that the growing commuities of various Christian denominations could
be a strong force (Constantines wife had converted to Christianity).
Therefore he called and chaired a meeting in Nicea 325. It is
important to note that he chaired the meeting although he was not a
converted Christian. He only saw the possibilities of power.

The most important issue was the view by the Orthodox  that favoured
three equal gods "God, Jesus and the Holy spirit" whilst the arians
had God on a higher level and Jesus and the Holy spirit on a lower
level.

As we know the Orthodox won that battle.

Constantine is considered the first Christian Caesar. However he
never converted to Christianity. In order to be on the safe side when
he died in case the new gods were stronger he was baptized on his
death bed.

I spoke to an Arian minister i Portland 5 years ago. When she
mentioned that she was an arian minister I said "Nicea". and her
reply was "That is where we lost"-

Tore



>  Due to the
>situation in the Roman Empire in the 340's and 350's
>and beyond, the greatest religious figure in the
>history of Gothic Christianity, Bishop Ulfila, was an
>Arian. I haven't made a special study of this, and
>stand to be corrected, but it seems to me that while
>the conversion of pagan Goths to Arian Christianity in
>the 370's was quite understandable in terms of the
>political situation in the Empire, this was no longer
>the case after the advent of Theodosius. There were of
>course "Orthodox" Goths, but the fact that in an epoch
>increasingly devoted to the affirmation of Orthodoxy
>in many dimensions (late 4th to mid-5th c. and beyond)
>most Goths remained Arian, and, quite significantly,
>that most of the new contingents moving into and
>around the boundaries of the Roman Empire opted for
>Arianism and not for Orthodoxy speaks volumes for the
>existence and nurture of "Gothic identity". An
>identity now associated with Arian Christianity rather
>than traditional Paganism. And this Gothic brand of
>Christianity seems to have been popular among other
>Germanic peoples too, though the specifics varied. The
>Franks, for instance, opted for Orthodoxy. I'm not
>certain how long Arianism persisted among the Goths
>and other peoples (perhaps those who know might say)
>but I do remember that in Spain it continued as the
>Christian option of the Wisigothic monarchy until the
>end of the 6th century at least. And this goes beyond
>the parameters of the list, but wasn't St Bonifatius
>involved in disputes with Arian bishops as late as the
>first half of the 8th c.?


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