[gothic-l] Re: Gothic Christianity

[Ingemar Nordgren]

Hi everybody!

Since I have had a serious computer crash I have a lot to read to catch
up. I noticed however the religious quarrel. I can agree with Albareiks
that not many god scientific arguments have been presented except of  by
Dirk and George  and partly also Aelfric.

I think you must keep certain borders between different factions as well
as between Christianity and "Heathendom". Everything must be properly
defined. First I will state that I not use heathen or pagan as being
negative expressions from one faith against other confessors. I use
Christian and non-Christian in that case. It means that practisers of
Nordic Fornsiðr is quite comparable with confessors of  Islam, Mosaic
religion, Hinduism et c. This is important in the discussion of
tolerance towards "pagans". It is a fact that the Arians in Theoderics
Italy and the Visigothic Arian kings were quite tolerant towards
confessors of non-Christian faiths. In Spain even the king had regular
meetings with a Mosaic counsil to ease for the Jews to practice their
religion. The same tolerance was shown in the pre-Christian society in
Visigothic Dacia to most  Christians. In Dacia only Christian Goths were
persecuted but not Romans and other foreigners being members of the
Visigothic society. In Spain the persecutions of Jews started with the
conversion to Catholicism when the later kings tried to gain influence
in Rome and hence did what the pope told them. In this way they brought
destruction to the realm and the victory of the Arabs was secured since
the Jews finally in 702 were made slaves for life with no chance to
practice their religion. The Jews had been an important economic factor
as well.

It is also quite evident that the Gothic ethnicity from the beginning
was founded on the common cult and their ancestry from Gaut. For the
common people it was primarily the fertility cult but the people still
was thought to descend from Gaut, who mostly was worshipped by the
chieftains and warriorleagues and in time merged with Wodan/Óðinn. The
ancestral cult was all the time strong in Visigothic Dacia. I can
suggest an interesting book in this subject by J. Ulrich: Barbarische
Gesellschaftsstruktur und römische Aussenpolitik zu Beginn der
Völkerwanderung-Ein Versuch zu den Westgoten 365-377, Habelts
Dissetationsdrucke, Heft 40, Reihe alte Geschichte, Bonn. My own book,
The Well Spring of the Goths, might come in English if present
negotiations with an international publisher  are successful. There I
treat this matter  about religion and ethnicity more thoroughly. Those
who read Swedish can however  order it  from me. The last  edition is
sold out so a reprint of a new, revised, Swedish edition is planned
quite soon.

In Dacia there were several churches inclusive Catholicism and Wulfilas
Arianism but only a minority of the Goths were Christian.  In Crimea the
Greek ortodox church was in majority and the population was mixed with
both Greeks and Goths. Those Goths never took part in the later
establishing of Gothic kingdoms. Wulfila was forced to move till Moesia
 and there he lived with his followers, the Gothi Minores, and wrote his
translation of the gospel. He did accordingly not convert many Goths to
Arianism.

The reason the Christiuan Goths were persecuted was political when the
kindins tried to keep the people together with help of the cult-their
only real ethnicity. The language was  not a strong enough a  factor to
keep them going together with a lot of outside influence, and a
composition of  the  Gothic population from a multi-ethnic origin. After
having, of political reasons, accepted Arian Christianity for protection
by Valens and his troops behind limes they crossed into Roman territory
in 376. With them they brought, as earlier remarked, the idols and holy
relicts of every singel kunja (tribe) carried by a priest and a
priestess. That much for the converted  astute Christian Goths crossing
the limes. It took a long time before Christianity was accepted by the
people more than just formally. The treatment they got by the Romans,
leading to Adrianopolis,was not directly a carrot to ease them into
beleive. When Teodosius edict was issued after the consilium in
Constantinople in 382 the Goths stayed Arian. This was both a political
gesture to keep the ethnicity - now with Arianism differing them from
the Roman world - and I think also a result of the close symbolic
connection between the Arian confession  and the cult of Óðinn-Gaut. In
Odinism the king is a descendant of Óðinn, he is initiated by stabbing
and hanging and is symbollically dead and resurrected as a human. Jesus
is son of God, is crucified (hanged) and stabbed and again resurrected
(as a human as understood by the Gothic commonship). This was easy to
understand and associate oneself with and hence could be politically
used by the reiks to glue the people together. Read also J.Zeiller "Les
origines chrétiennes dans les provinces danubiennes", Paris 1918.

As I remarked above the conversion to Catholicism brought the Gothic
ethnicity in dissolution and  Gothic landowners made often common sake
with Roman landowners against the Visigothic king and this resulted in
internal warfare and a weak kingship following the papal dictates via
the councils of Toledo. There was no longer a remaining Gothic identity
and so the realm was chrushed by the Arabs bringing back a little
religious  tolerance once again. The Arian kings still were tolerant
also tovards Catholic citicens including Goths, but tried to keep their
number low (of political reasons). I must however add that the Vandals
were not tolerant, depending on local political reasons, but the
Goths,Burgundians and Langobards were indeed. Something similar can be
said later of the Normandic kingdom of Sicily that immediately was
attacked by the pope and finally chrushed in a so called crusade in 1266
like the poor Cathars and Albingenses. Roman Catholicism all the time
seems to be another word for intolerance. Read about this Visigothic
problem e.g. Dietric Claude "Geschichte der Westgoten" 1970. I know that
both Heather and  our honoured friend Andreas has treated Gothic
religion but not this very aspect as far as I recall.

Finally I would like to wish to everybody

A Very Good  Yule and a happy New Year/God Jul och Gott Nytt År/
Weihnachtsgrüsse und schön Neujahr/ Joyeux Noël et une Bonne Nouvelle Année!

Ingemar

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ingemar Nordgren, Ph.D.
Sjögrässtigen 15
SE-533 73 KÄLLBY
Sweden
46-510-541851




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