[gothic-l] Re: Gothic and Gotlandic Sailing

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm at s...> wrote:
> >
> >  >
> >>  Dirk,
> >>  Would be interesting to know your sources.
> >>  According to various skandinavien scolars the Heruls lived
> >somewhere
> >>  north of Elbe in southern Denmark and followed the Goths to the
> >Black
> >>  Sea.
> >>  Some of the Heruls seems to have stayed.
> >>
> >>  Haywood seems to be of that opinion also.
> >>
> >>  I can't argue the one way or the other, just reading the
opinion of
> >>  the scholars.
> >>
> >>  Tore
> >
> >
> >
> >Tore,
> >
> >did you follow the discussion with Andreas Schwarcz on the
Germanic-
> >L? He stated clearly that there is not a single source at all
> >supporting the view that Heruls lived in Scandinvia prior to about
> >512AD. Andreas provided all the relevant literature and the latest
> >interpretations. I have nothing really to add to that and it looks
> >that Haywood is simply wrong here.
> >
> >Dirk
> >
> >
>
>
> Dirk,
> Yes I follow the discussions and see most of them as contribution
to
> discussions. From that new ideas open up which is healthy for
further
> research.
>
> All the old scholars can't be wrong. It is a common understanding
in
> Scandinavian literature that the Eruli originated from southern
> Denmark before they joined the Goths at the Black sea.
> I have to keep this as an open end.
>
> Tore



Tore,

It was for a long time common understanding that the Earth was the
center of the universe. The problems with many old scholars is that
their scientific methods were not as sound as modern methods and in
addition they often wrote in a different political climate. Thus,
they would generally be more open to engaging in speculation and
accepting the speculative statements of one generation of scholars as
unchangable facts into the next generation.

These 'Stammeskundler' quadrupled the knowledge about the Germanic
tribes, but they also have ininvertedly done tremendous damage. See
for example the article by J. Blischke 'Die Wielbark-Kulture und die
Problematik der Gotenwanderung' in "Archaeologische Informationen,"
19/1&2, 1996, pp. 117-123. Blischke shows in this article how the
teachings of Kosinna, Nerman, Oxenstierna, Engel et alia, have
stifled archaeological research on the Gothic migrations for almost a
century. In short, to argue that the 'old scholars' were perhaps
correct in this case, you would have to provide evidence to support
this.

I really think that Andreas has provided the answer in his message
above. It seems reasonable to assume that before 289AD the Heruli
lived somewhere east of Holstein, perhaps the Mecklenburg coast,
perhaps some Danish isles These areas are close together and
difference cannot really be of any concern. This might enable the
identification of the Heruls with the Hirri, who apparently lived at
the Mecklenburg coast in the first century AD and who were mentioned
by Pliny, but that is speculation as everything else beyond this
point.

Dirk





> --


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