[gothic-l] Gothic and Gotlandic Sailing

[Søren Larsen]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tore Gannholm" <tore.gannholm at swipnet.se>
To: <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [gothic-l] Gothic and Gotlandic Sailing



It is naive to think that sails were not used in the Baltic.
What we can discus is to which extent sails were used. When rowing
was faster they used rowing. But if there was good wind they of
course used some kind of sail.
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SL:
Do you have any evidence or supporting argument concerning sails
in the Baltic? I think you put to much importance into sails on warships.
Warships was primarily oarpowered well into the middleages for very
good reasons - speed and maneuverability. Sail makes sense when you
want to transport a heavy cargo and use as few crewmembers as possible
- bulktrade.

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I have made relevant parts of the book  "Dark Age Naval Power"
available on http://w1.855.telia.com/~u85528681/Gothic_l/

About sails one can read the following:
"Most Of the ships in this fleet were probably sailing ships as,
Tacitus tells us, the Germans used cloaks to make improvised sails to
improve the performance, and appearance, of some of their captured
Roman vessels.41 This is the earliest evidence which exists for the
use of the sail among the Germans and is discussed in greater detail
below "
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SL:

I don't think anyone is arguing that Roman ships were unable to carry sails.
All this quote indicates is that  the captured Roman ships probably
wasn't equipped with sails when taken, which make the idea that they were
primarily sailing ships less probable, or that the germanics didn't know how
to use the proper sails  or  the germanics knew about sails but didn't have
any
available.and experimented with cloaks.

I think it is more likely that the captured ships was military ships like
liburnians - a one or two banked open galley and as such a primarily
oarpropelled ship with help sail
.
It should be noted that it was practice if possible to remove mast and sail
on mediterreanean warships before going into combat to enhance speed
and maneuverability when going by oars.

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"The Roman fleet had the advantage of the current but the Germans had
the wind behind them. The last point is another indicator of the
importance of sailing ships in the German fleet. "
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SL:

You would definitely  like wind and current on your side even when going by
oars.

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"It is impossible to say exactly when the Germans first learned of
the sail but it was certainly in widespread use among their Celtic
neighbours by c. 100 BC.  Roman naval expeditions in 12 BC, AD 5 and
AD 12 had explored the coasts of Germany and Denmark so it is
impossible that the Germans of the North Sea coast were still
ignorant of the sail in the first century AD.  It is thought that the
common Germanic word segel is derived from the Celtic word seklo ).
As the word must have entered the Germanic vocabulary long before the
first century AD, this would seem to indicate that the Germans had
learned of the sail from their Celtic neighbours well before their
first contacts with the Romans. "
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SL:

I agree that the germanics were aware of a lot concepts in the
Roman and Celtic world. This does not mean that these things
were in use by the germanics all over the germanic area from the
the first contact onwards.

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"The type and sophistication of a seafaring people's shipbuilding
traditions seems to be completely irrelevant to the question of the
adoption of the sail: almost anything that can float, from a log raft
to a reed boat or a dug-out canoe, can be, and has been, successfully
saildriven."

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SL:

Right. The only problem is that you have no ability to beat against the wind
in such vessels. This means that you have to rely on wind and current as
on a river or in the trade wind belts/seasons.
You definitely wouldnt like to cruise around the North Sea or Baltic in
such a vessel unless you are suicidal

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"The Franks and Saxons were also being joined by raiders from
Scandinavia, for in c. 287 Maximian defeated a force of Heruls, then
settled in Denmark, who had attacked the lower Rhine along with the
Chaibones, probably the Saxon tribe of the Aviones."

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SL:

I think others are better suited than I to discuss the whereabouts of the
Heruls.
;-)

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--

"He suggests that the structure was detachable and was set up only in
rough seas. This hypothesis has received scant attention from
maritime archaeologists, which is surprising because, if Åkerlund is
right, the limitations of the weak keel structure, as regards the
potential seaworthiness of Nydam-type ships and their ability to
carry mast and sail, have been exaggerated. Indeed, in the light of
the ship-carving from KarIby,92 it now appears certain that
Nydam-type ships did at some point in their development become
sailing ships. Unfortunately, the lack of a dating context for the
carving means that at present the time at which that occurred cannot
be determined. "

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SL:

The Karlby carving measures 12mm on pebble found on Karlby beach.
While the ship resembles the Nydam type, the other carvings; a deer and
a snake with open mouth resemble carvings from the 7th and 8th c.

The carving is tantalizing but must be regarded as very weak evidence it
should alsoi be noted that the ship has 1! crewmember.l

Cheers
Soren Larsen











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