[gothic-l] Whence the Eruli

[george knysh]

--- Bertil Haggman <mvk575b at tninet.se> wrote:
> Thank you for presenting your views on the Eruli.
> It is very interesting that you are so opposed
> to Taylor's view, who presents the Eruli as a
> Germanic people.

*****GK: That is also my opinion. I have no idea where
you may have gotten the impression that I did not
believe the Eruli to be a Germanic people.*****

 He also stated that the raids
> in 267, 269 and 275 AD in the case of the Eruli
> originated from the area around the Sea of Azov
> ("vom Asowschen Meer ausgehend").

*****GK: That is also my opinion. I distinguished the
"staging area" of the raids from that of the Erulian
settlements. The former cannot easily be captured by
archaeology since the site layers are exceedingly thin
and volatile in such cases.******
>
> Do you have any support in your thesis on the Eruli
> from others?

*****GK: All field archaeologists, to my knowledge,
agree with the proposition that in the period ca. 200
AD through 400 AD only three cultures can be
associated with Germanic populations, as I've stated
below.******
>
> Scandinavian historians, as reported on this list,
> have taken a keen interest in the Scandinavian
> Eruli. Is it also you opinion that the Eruli did not
> migrate to Thoule and that Prokopios is mistaken?

*****GK: No. I do not think Procopius was mistaken on
this point, though he may have garbled some of the
details******
>
> Bertil Haggman
>
> > They emerge into history under their own name in
> the
> > 260's as prime participants in the barbarian raids
> > against the Roman Empire across the Black Sea.
> > It seems probable that they were included among
> the
> > "Boradoi" or "Boranoi" (="northern
> peoples")mentioned
> > by the sources as to the raids of the 250's.
> > The appellative "Eliuroi" is almost certainly a
> Greek
> > folk rendition of "Eruli", facilitated by the fact
> > that the Eruli staged their raids from the area of
> the
> > Bosporan Kingdom, i.e. from the "Maeotian swamps".
> > Their primary settlements were east of the Vistula
> > since the Vita Claudii VI.2 lists them among the
> > "Scythian" peoples.
> > Archaeologically, the only known Germanic cultures
> > east of the Vistula in the classic Roman era are:
> > Psheworsk, Wielbark, and Chernyakhiv (the latter
> > shared with other ethna).
> > It is absolutely impossible for the Erulian
> > settlements to have been located "at the Maeotis"
> (as
> > per Ablabius). This was geographically the
> preserve of
> > nomadic Iranic (Alanic) tribes, a fact
> conclusively
> > confirmed by extensive archaeological research. We
> > must seek them further north and northwest, in the
> > area of the Chernyakhiv culture, where they are
> > indistinguishable from Goths and Gepids in the
> period
> > 250-400.
> > The Chernyakhiv culture was initiated by Getan and
> > Scytho-Sarmatian tribes close to the Roman
> borders. It
> > began in the first half of the 2nd c. AD. Newly
> > incoming Germanic groups assimilated to this
> culture
> > as of the 2nd half of the 3rd c. In the first
> phase of
> > their residency east of the Vistula, these
> Germanic
> > groups were either "Wielbark" or "Psheworsk" in
> their
> > cultural orientation. There are no other recovered
> > archaeological identities. Certainly none from
> > Scandinavia directly. This means that the incoming
> > Eruli must have initially also have been either
> > "Wielbark" or "Psheworsk". The Wielbark culture
> began
> > to form in northern Poland and was in place no
> later
> > than the 2nd c. BC. It is usually associated with
> the
> > Goths and Gepids. If the Erulian component is to
> be
> > sought here then the same arguments developed with
> > respect to the origin of the Goths would apply to
> the
> > Eruli. The Psheworsk culture began to form in
> Western
> > Poland and was in place also no later than the 2nd
> c.
> > BC. It is usually associated with the Vandals. If
> the
> > Eruli came from here, then a possible historical
> link
> > to the "Harii" or "Hirri" might be entertained.
> One
> > further point is also clear: whatever one makes of
> > Jordanes' statement that "Dani...Herulos propriis
> > sedibus expulerunt" I must amend my earlier belief
> > that this could have happened in the 3rd c. There
> is
> > no evidence either in the Psheworsk or Wielbark
> areas
> > of a significant "northern" influx at that time.
> We
> > must therefore either go back further in time (I
> don't
> > know if archaeology allows this, it might), or
> agree
> > with some later (probably 6th c.) scenario for the
> > event.
>
>
>


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