[gothic-l] Whence the Eruli

[george knysh]

--- Bertil Haggman <mvk575b at tninet.se> wrote:
> Well, as I understand we agree at least on
> two points.
>
> Could you explain how that "staging area"
> of the raids could be outside the area of
> settlement? Is it to be understood that
> the Eruli forces marched from the settlement
> area to stage the raids from another area?

*****GK: When speaking of raids which utilized the
fleet of the Bosporan Kingdom, the notion is that
Goths, Eruli (and others) marched from their
settlements further north to the point of embarkation.
There were also raids starting from coastal points
further west (e.g. Olbia, Tyras) and here the
settlements were much closer. Unlike Scythians and
Sarmatians before them, it does not appear that the
Germanic masses here were interested in "urban
living". Practically no evidence epigraphic or other
has been found to indicate that the population of the
remaining cities on the Lower Dnipro or on the
coastline had any "Gothic" elements. Goths (and
perhaps Eruli) built a few newer "castles" (or
stockaded strong points) where they had their
villages. Possibly a ruler such as Ermanaric may have
kept a residence in one of the Late Scythian cities
(perhaps in Ptolemeus' "Metropolis"), which would
explain the later stories of "Danparstadt". The grave
evidence indicates that it is the local
Scytho-Sarmatian aristocrats who were buried in these
tombs (the "Rosomoni" of the legend).******
>
> Yes, I have not been able to find out if Ukraine
> or Russia (or visiting archaelogists) are doing
> any research around the Sea of Azov as related
> to the Eruli.

*****GK: A tremendous amount of mostly published
excavations have been done here for all historical
periods. No significant Gothic or Erulic material
(other than occasional discrete object finds)  has
been discovered. The sequence of dominant cultures
here (Sea of Azov)is: Scythian and Maeotian (the
latter now considered Indo-Aryans), Sarmatian and
Alanic, Hunno-Bulgar and by then we are in the early
middle ages.*****
>
> Then the Eruli just accidentally migrated to
> Thoule. Wouldn't it have been more easy to move
> somewhere closer to Illyricum?

*****GK: If they shared a "myth of origin" similar to
the one recorded for the Goths (and for many other
Germanic populations if one believes Rydberg) they may
simply have thought they were "going home".******
>
> Bertil Haggman
>
>
>
> > That is also my opinion. I have no idea where
> > you may have gotten the impression that I did not
> > believe the Eruli to be a Germanic people.
>
> > That is also my opinion. I distinguished the
> > "staging area" of the raids from that of the
> Erulian
> > settlements. The former cannot easily be captured
> by
> > archaeology since the site layers are exceedingly
> thin
> > and volatile in such cases.
>
> > All field archaeologists, to my knowledge,
> > agree with the proposition that in the period ca.
> 200
> > AD through 400 AD only three cultures can be
> > associated with Germanic populations, as I've
> stated
> > below.
> > No. I do not think Procopius was mistaken on
> > this point, though he may have garbled some of the
> > details.
>
>
>


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