[gothic-l] Pre-Viking Raids and Verland

[george knysh]

--- Bertil Haggman <mvk575b at tninet.se> wrote:
> Jordanes mentioned the Eruli has being driven
> out by the Danes, so there certainly is no doubt
> that Jordanes regarded the Eruli as Scandinavian.

*****GK: This is a very ambiguous passage. "propriis
sedibus" is a reference either to the Eruli or to the
Danes. It is anybody's guess as to what Jordanes meant
and in which time frame. There is certainly doubt
whether Jordanes regarded the Eruli as Scandinavian.
Perhaps he did. Perhaps he didn't. We simply don't
know. And assertions which can just as easily be
denied have no probative value.*****
>
> "Free warriors"? A new Knyshian term?

*****GK: Nope. The original meaning of *erilaz is
uncertain. But the excellent linguist Piotr
Gonsiorowski notes it as the probable antonym of
*karilaz (=man, free peasant, farmer, "churl"), and as
a social status term meaning
"warrior,high-born,earl"*****
>
> BTW, Prokopios word is "near" not "among".

*****GK: This also is an ambiguous term, which can
mean either "near" or "among". I prefer the former,
but suggest that IF one wishes to interpret "Eruli" as
a status rather than an ethnicity, then "among" might
work for them. The "Eruli" would then be "Gauti"
coming home. I don't accept the theory myself.*****
>
> Anybody who is writing about "extant evidence"
> when it comes to the Era of Great Migration is
> not really quite up to date.

*****GK: Anybody who is unfamiliar with the
archaeological evidence is not even in the
stadium.*****
>
>
> > Since the writers who attempted to enumerate
> > the populations inhabiting Scandinavia (esp.
> Ptolemy
> > and Cassiodorus/Jordanes) do not mention "Eruli"
> among
> > the major established groups of "Scandza", you
> might
> > try to argue that this term ("Eruli") was of the
> same
> > category as "Vikings" or "Vaerings", i.e. that the
> > so-called "Eruli" had a different, proper,
> "ethnic"
> > name. Calling themselves "Eruli" ("free
> > warriors"?)just for the purpose of their
> campaigning.
> > What would have been this "proper" name? Well if
> they
> > settled "among" the Gauti after 512 AD, perhaps
> they
> > were originally "Gauti"? I'm not saying this is
> the
> > case, only indicating one of the many different
> > scenarios which are possible if one does not wish
> to
> > adopt a strict scientific attitude, but follows
> one's
> > desires and intuition beyond the rigors of the
> extant
> > evidence.
>
>
>



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