[gothic-l] Re: Trailing the Eruli in the North

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., "troels_brandt" <trbrandt at p...> wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at y..., "faltin2001" <dirk at s...> wrote:
> .......
> >
> > Ok, that might be the case. However, on average I would not
expect
> to
> > trail the path of a defeated and expelled group by the gold that
> they
> > carry.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Also, all gold denominations found in Scandinavia are from
the
> > > > Constantinopel mints - without a single execption. Since the
> > Heruls
> > > > are supposed to have come from Moravia, one would expect
coins
> > from
> > > > western mints like Sirmium, but especially from Ravenna and
> Rome,
> > > as
> > > > they used to be allied with the Ostrogoths.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Should Theodoric pay Roduulf to be his son-in-arms? The Heruls
> were
> > > mercenaries, when Odoaker became a king, and a coin with Odoaker
> > > is found in King Ottars Mound in Uppland.
> >
> >
> > Are you sure about this? The coins of Odoaker are excessively
rare
> > and all known pieces (only about 3 or 4 are in exsistence, are
well
> > recorded). Grierson & Blackburn (Early Medieval Coinage, vol.1)
> know
> > of no Odoaker half-siliqua from Sweden. In fact, only one single
> > Ostrogothic coin has ever been found in Sweden (a very worn
quarter-
> > siliqua of Theoderic). Can you tell me more about this Odoaker-
coin
> > in Uppland please.
> >
> >
> > You do not know from where
> > > they got their tribute and mercenary wages in Moravia at a time
> > > when Byzans was the great power in Europe.
> >
> >
> > That might be true, but if Constantinopel-made coinage was
flowing
> to
> > Moravia at that time - as wages or subsidies- I would have
expected
> > finds of such coins to emerge especially from these areas. In
> > general, I said that I don't dispute the possibility of coin finds
> > as support for a migration, but think that there are a number of
> > problems with it as well.
>
> Dirk,
>
> The Odoaker-coin was my mistake reading "from Odoakers reign" as a
> coin of Odoaker. However if we only know 4 coins from Odoaker, who
> ruled Italy for 18 years, and we know a lot of solidi from his
> superior Byzantine emperor, there is no reason to expect a majority
> of Italian solidi among the Heruls in that period - and neither in
> the first period of Theodoric as the Heruls had supported Odoaker.


Hi Troels,

there are only about 3 to 4 coins in existence with the portrait of
Odoaker (half/quarter siliquae, i.e. small silver coins). There are
some more copper nummi with his monogramme. However, these coins were
small change and of no particular interest to mercenaries etc. The
main coinage of Odoaker was a gold coinage (solidi and tremisses) in
the name of the emperor Zeno, but minted at Rome, Milan, Ravenna and
some more Italian mints. His Herulic mercenaries would have received
payment in this West Roman coinage not in East Roman (Constantinopel)
issues. All solidi in Scandinavia, including the Basiliscus coin in
the Ottar-mound, are from the mint of Constantinopel.


cheers,
Dirk





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