[gothic-l] Two Peoples

[Bertil Haggman]

Andreas,

Thank you for the detailed and interesting account.
It reminded me of A.M.'s background, which I have
quoted in contributions on the reason for the down-
fall of the Roman empire in the west.

If Alarich I is regarded as the first Visigothic king
that leaves, in my opinion, only Athanrich and Fridigern,
which could be regarded as leading a part of the
Gothic people.

Then we have to ask. Did they really lead the whole
Gothic people 366 to 395 AD or were they leaders
of the Visigoths.

I think Professor Lars Hermodsson is correct when
he wrote in his introduction to Gothic history that
emperor Valens gave the Visigoths permission to cross
the Danube. I agree completely with him and the Visogoths
subsequently were those who defeated Valens at
present time Edirne in 378 AD. Hermodsson goes further
back, even to the 3rd Century AD referring to Visigoths
already in 275 AD. The names differ, Visigoths, Ostrogoths,
Tervingi and Greutingi. The latter were earlier designations
that did not fit into the later migrations. They may have
referred to "forest inhabitants" and "inhabitants of sandy or
rocky ground".

Gothically

Bertil

a contemporary source is someone who actually lived and wrote
during the events he described and that applies to Ammianus
Marcellinus, who is one of the most trustworthy sources of the
fourth century. Moreover he had been an officer in the Roman army
and he knew what he wrote about.
As to Ammius and Sarus, to be exact, the story Jordanes tells
Getica 129 f. is that the unnamed husband of Sunilda is the leader
of the Rosomoni, who had "fraudulenter" left the following of
Ermanaric, while he prepared for war against the Hunni. Ermanaric
kills as punishment for this treason Sunilda by having hear torn
apart by horses, and is attacked by her brothers Ammius and
Sarus in revenge and wounded.
The account of Ammianus Marcellinus, Res gestae XXXI, 3, is
more matter-of-fact and reports that the Alans were overrun by the
Hunni and joined them against the Greuthungi, whose king
Ermenrichus resisted them, but despaired and committed suicide.
His successor Vithimir died in battle and Alatheus and Saphrac
take over the leadership, because Viderichus, Vithimir's son, is still
a child.
According to Visigothic tradition, the first king of the Visigoths was
Alaric the first, but the Visigoths really were formed by his followers
and those of Athaulf, who joined him in Italy. You can speak of
Visigoths after the settlement of this army in Aquitaine, so the first
king who was actually king of the Visigoths was Theoderic I, who
succeeded Vallia. But all the kings of the Tolosan realm in
Aquitaine up to Alaric II called themselves officially "rex Gothorum",
not Visigothorum.



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