[gothic-l] Re: Scanza - Was: Trailing the Eruli in the North

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm at s...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Tore,
> >
> >these may by old thoughts, but I don't think they are outdated. The
> >key message is that different authors used the names Thule and
> >Scandza for different geographical place and sometimes one and the
> >same author was not consistent. Thus, people like Jordanes and
> >Procopius had only a vague idea of the geographical situation in
> >northern Europe and when they spoke of one place they were unsure
> >whether to call it Scandza or Thule.
> >
> >The important bit is:" Procopius' Thule was merely an allegory for
> >the various peoples of the entire Scandinavian peninsula compressed
> >into a small, nearly barren island simply due to lack of
perspective
> >in terms of the land mass' circumference. For him, the midnight sun
> >only took place at 40-day intervals instead of several months and
did
> >not necessarily adhere to a strict 24-hour schedule of complete
> >sunlight or darkness without fail. Jordanes mentioned Thule among
> >many other far-flung islands, but deliberately chose to disregard
it
> >as a populated area and homeland of the Goths in favor of Scandza
in
> >order to encourage of fusion of Gothic traditions with Roman
> >traditions in terms of manufacturing a common culture and history
> >(Jordanes,I.9)."
> >
> >As for Tacitus, I have to check this with the source. I may have
made
> >a mistake.
> >
> >Dirk
> >
>
>
> Dirk,
> What I oppose is that you don't analyze when Jordanes confuses
Thule
> with Scandzem and take it for granted that it must be the same
place.
>
> You are reapeating old misunderstandings when you just accept that
> there was only one place in the Baltic. Archaeological finds says
> something else.
>
> Tore


Tore,

in my view the Greeks and especially Romans had a number of different
points of contact in the Baltic Sea and North Sea at different times
and different intensity to which they allocated only two different
main names. The problem was that they had no common map for
reference. Thus, Thule could be anything from Scandinavia proper over
the Shetlands/Orkneys to Iceland, while the somewhat later name
Scandza/Scatinavia seems to have mainly been used for Scandinavia
proper with Gotland, or even Gotland alone. Also, some people argue
that Thule was Norway, while Scatinavia was Sweden, which is not true
in any case as Procopius' confusion of these placed shows.

Can I ask when the name Gotland is first attested in historical
documents, and who recorded it?

Dirk






Thus, when one author spoke about one place, he called









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