[gothic-l] Goths in the East

[george knysh]

--- Bertil Haggman <mvk575b at tninet.se> wrote:
> The people's name Goths derive from the
> same etymological root as the ethnic names gautar
> and gutar in Vaest- and Oestergoetland and on
> the island of Gotland.

*****GK: No reason to disagree with this*****
>
> (BH)The name Goths appeared early in Greek and Roman
> literature.

*****GK: I agree.******
>
> (BH)At the beginning of the 3rd century AD after
> the Goths, probably migrating from southern
> Scandinavia, settled north of the Black Sea
> and formed the First Great Gothic Kingdom,
> ruled by Ermanarik.

*****GK: It is not at all clear that the Goths who
settled north of the Black Sea were "migrants from
Scandinavia". They were carriers of the Welbark
culture which was formed on the north shore of the
Baltic by the 2nd c. BC. What is highly probable is
that this culture was formed with the active inclusion
of Scandinavians esp. from Gotland.*****

(BH)If one adds the
> Second Great Gothic Kingdom,

*****GK: I think it would be better to subtract it
(:=))) But you may certainly add the "Second Little
Gothic Kingdom" in the Crimea (at least until its
conquest by the Khazars)*******

(BH)the Ostrogothic
> kingdom in Italy and the Visigothic kingdom in Spain
> there would be four larger Gothic kingdoms
> founded.

*****GK: Three larger and one smaller.******

(BH)What we have would be the following
> chronology:
>
> 150 - 350 AD
>
> The Slavic name for the Goths is formed with
> two variants from the Proto-Slavic stems *rusu
> and *rudu, red. This name began to spread
> among the Slavs in the form of *Rusi and *Rudi,
> 'the Red-Blond (People).

*****GK: No. There is no evidence for this at all. The
only "Rosomoni" of Hermanaric's time were the
Scytho-Sarmatian aristocrats of his realm. Their names
were Gothicized in a Gothic tale (just as they were
"Norsified" in the later saga). In all probability
"Sarus" should be connected with the city of "Serim"
(or that of "Ser"), and "Ammius" with the city of
"Amadoka", both on the Lower Dnipro and part of the
Scythian realm subjected by the Goths.******
>
>(BH) Ca. 450 AD
>
> The palatilized Proto-Slavic forms *Rus and *Rud is
> a common name by this time among the Slavs for
> Goths, irrespective of the ethnic origin. The Proto-
> Slavic name *Rus corresponds to the names
> Visigoths and Ostrogoths, but it is different as it
> is
> of Slavic origin.

*****GK: Fantasy, without a shred of evidence to back
it up.******
>
> (BH)Ca. 400 - 600 AD
>
> The Goths in Russia accept the Slavic name
> for themselves, i.e. *Rus, which they render *Rauths
> in their own language.

*****GK: Fantasy without any support in the source
material******
>
> (BH)600 - 800 AD
>
> The Greeks in the South and the Finno-Ugric tribes
> in the north borrow the Gothic form of the ethnic
> name
> from which emerges Greek Rhos and Estonian Roots and
> Ruotsi in Finnish. The Arabs borrowed the Slavic
> form
> directly into Ar-Rus, the Rus.

*****GK: Nope. The Greeks, East Khazars, Slavs,
incoming Scandinavians and Arabs all borrow what
ultimately harks back to the Iranic stem *Ros/Rus. The
Finns, Estonians and North Germans ("Ruzzi")harden the
"s" to a "t" . None of this has anything whatsoever to
do with the Goths. Sorry. Over and out.*****


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