[gothic-l] Two Peoples

[george knysh]

--- Bertil Haggman <mvk575b at tninet.se> wrote:
 But many Ostrogoths remained in the East
> and
> later after 450 AD established the Second Great
> Gothic
> Kingdom in the east. This was later referred to as
> Rus.

*****GK: This is sheer fantasy. The Gothic remnants in
the East did establish a statelet in the mountainous
area of the Crimea (just east of the Byzantine
holdings around Chersonesos). The tiny scattered
communities which remained behind on the rest of the
territory of contemporary Ukraine were absorbed by the
Slavs, while contributing some names to the leaders of
the 6th c. Antes and Sclaveni. The major state here
after 450 AD was that of the Late Huns, the so-called
Ulchindurs, and it is the Slavicized aristocratic
clans of the latter which provided the nucleus for the
political foundation legend of Kyivan Rus' (Kyi,
Schek, and Khoryv were Ulch dynasts of the late 5th
and early 6th c.). The Primary Chronicle of Rus'
recognized the Goths as a "Varangian" nation, but
attributed no role to them in the emergence of the
state. Gothic merchants from the Crimea were still
active (along with many other foreigners) at the court
of the Volynian Prince Volodymyr in the 1280's. The
Crimean "Gothia", by then almost completely
hellenized, was conquered by the Turks in 1475. To
view Kyivan Rus' as "the Second Great Gothic Kingdom
in the east" is completely irresponsible, to say the
very least.*******



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