[gothic-l] Two Peoples

[Bertil Haggman]

Oskar,

Personally I have always been rather sceptic
of Heather. You are welcome after having
read the Hermodsson book on the Goths,
(but maybe you cannot read Swedish?) to
discuss the failings of that book.

Others and myself do not have the high regard
for Heather and Wolfram and I hope that these
views are at least respected by others.

There still remains important questions to be explained
in the field of research on the Goths by those
who propose an ethnogenesis in northern Poland.
Also the linguistic similarity between the people names Goths, Gutar,
Goetar/Gauti will always be hard to explain away.
I have dealt in years with the details of this linguistic
peoples names similarity on the list and will not do a repeat
performance here but suggest that you study the
list archives.

It is hard to see why it is necessary to argue for
the existence of Gothic unity. In my opinion there are
indications that the Tervingi were in 376 AD led by
Alavivus and the Greuthingi by Alatheus and Saphrax
when they sought refuge from the Huns in the Roman
empire. Then ten  years later other Greuthingi followed
under Odotheus and still other Goths under Radagaisus
405/406 AD. But many Ostrogoths remained in the East and
later after 450 AD established the Second Great Gothic
Kingdom in the east. This was later referred to as Rus.
Wherever the Goths migrated they demonstrated special
characteristics: an extraordinary military and organizational
capacity and a high level of cultural development but they
lacked the ability to set up political systems that remained
stable for longer periods of time. Such was also the pattern
of the kingdom of Rus but it was the Gothic kingdom to last
longest. As late as the 11th century a Gothic element is
still discernible but the ethnic, lingustic and cultural policy of
Slavization prevailed. It can be estimated that in the 1240s with
the victories of the Tatars the last element of Gothic origin
of the Khaganate of Kiev disappeared in the south.

So the end result of the migrations of the Goths could be said
to be the Ostrogothic Kingdom in Italy, the Visigothic kingdom
in Spain and the Second Great Gothic Kingdom in the east
that laste longer than the Gothic kingdoms in the west.

Gothically

Bertil

Naturally, you are entitled to stick to whatever theory you might wish.
I just find it peculiar that you do not face the evidence presented here
and seriously reply to it. I can't understand what this Hermodsson makes
such an impact on you, and why he is more authorative to you than other
more competent historians like Wolfram and Heather?
Somehow it seems like you prefer it to be a certain way although you are
unable to face up to the facts laid forward authorative historians like Heather
and competent members of this list!






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