[gothic-l] Re: Trailing the Eruli in the North

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., andreas.schwarcz at u... wrote:
> Dear Dirk,
> I did not use a translation, but the authoritative Latin text
edited in
> the MGH by Mommsen.


Dear Andreas,

this must be a misunderstanding. I made appologies for not using the
Latin text, but a -perhaps unsatisfactory- translation, because I
know that you used the Latin text.



And Jordanes does not start with the
> Scerefennae, he starts Getica 20 with the gens Adogit: "In cuius
> parte arctoa gens Adogit consistit, quae fertur in aestate media
> quadraginta diebus et noctibus luces habere continuas."


Agreed, I missed the Adogit.



> You will
> agree that the "pars arctoa" and the region of continous light in
> midsummer is not in the south of Scandza.


Certainly.



> It always pays to read
> the texts, not only the translations.


Yes, but my knowledge of Latin is too limited unfortunately, so I
have to resort to translations and secondary interpretations. That is
where I got the idea that Jordanes' names of tribes on Scandza is not
a simple north to south list, as you stated, but a more complex
listing resulting from a combination of different sources. Thus,
Svennung considers the Scerefennae in the very north to be identical
to the Finni at the end of the list, i.e. in the south. Also Suethans
and Suetidi are considered to be the same group by Svennung, who
argued that the list was compiled from at least two different
sources, that had been around for a long time and that were used by
other ancient authors as well. Only the Dani and Heruli are
considered to be later additions to the old texts.

Svennung also observed that most names were concentrated at the
Western coast of Scandza indicating that the knowledge of the names
travelled via a western route to the south, adding that these names
were likely first known in Gaul and along the Rhine. Svennung argued
that all names were transmitted by only one or two people, who were
not natives of Scandza themselves. A first one reported the names in
Getica III 22 and a second one reported the names in Getica III 23,
except for the Dani and Heruli, who are later additions.






> And "contempto proprio regno"
> is a very literary description of someone who had left his own
> country for the court of Theodoric.



My dictionary translates 'contempto' as 'to dispise', 'to disdain', '
to think lightly of'; 'proprio' 'once own'; 'regno' kingdom'.
Thus, 'dispising his own kingdom' Roduulf fled to the embrace of
Theoderic. I may be completely wrong, but the fact that
Jordanes/Cassiodorus added that Roduulf 'dispised' his own kingdom
should have some meaning in this context.



> Cassiodorus wrote for the court
> of Ravenna, who would have been more flattered by the decription a
> voluntary joining of a foreign king than by the arrival of an
exiled and
> deposed king, and we cannot tell from his wording what really
> caused Roduulf's journey.


Possibly, but for this interpretation there seems to be no other
indication in the text and it would not connect easily with the rest
of the description of Scandza. Under this interpretation, it would
stand completely isolated not adding anything to the overall
description. However, the combination of the negative and uninviting
description of Scandza with the migration of this king Roduulf
who 'dispised his kingdom' at the end of the passage suggests that
the author intended this passage to emphasise the unattractiveness of
the island, whatever the real reason for this journey was (if indeed
it was a real event).

cheers,
Dirk


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