[gothic-l] Goths in the East

[Bertil Haggman]

Am not in the position to perceive Nestor's
reactions but you might be right that the
Gothic-L is not the list to discuss the Nestor
Chronicle in detail.

The nationalities you mention came to ask the
Rus to come and rule in Russia.

One can always discuss the reliability of
translations. If you are proposing an alternative
reading of my quote I would be happy to
delve further in it.

As concerning Professor Pritsak the theories I have
presented are those provided in _The Origin of Rus_.
So unless Professor Pritsak has changed his mind
I don't think he would have any objections.

Bertil Haggman


> Good old Nestor would have an instant answer
> for you here (in fact he already gave it but you seem
> to have missed it): the reason why no "Rus" have ever
> been identified in Sweden, N. would say, is because
> they all left with Rurik and moved East...This is one
> of the points relied on by various "anti-Normanists"
> to reject the Nestor thesis as an artificial
> construct. But the Gothic list is not the venue for
> such discussions.

>  If your Swedish translation of Nestor s.a.
> 882 does not state that the "Rus" who came to Kyiv
> with "Oleg" were a motley crew of many nationalities,
> then it is a bad translation. I have already pointed
> out that this text is viewed as more ancient and
> accurate than Nestor's later construction. I would
> also suggest that you check the first pages of your
> translation. If it is accurate you should find there
> that the concept of "Varangian Sea" and "Varangian
> peoples" is much broader than simply Scandinavians.
> But I have already given you the gist of this in a
> previous post and will not repeat myself. As for
> Pritsak, there is nothing in his work to support
> Soederland's fantastic speculations. I know Pritsak
> fairly well, and have had many conversations with him.
> I have criticized some of his theories in various
> journals and in my own books, while recognizing the
> high quality of many of his surmises. He would laugh
> at your Gothic fantasies. It would be best for
> everyone if you stopped flogging this dead horse and
> devoted your investigative energies to more productive
> pursuits.



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