[gothic-l] Re: Trailing the Eruli in the North - solidi

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., george knysh <gknysh at y...> wrote:
>
> --- faltin2001 <dirk at s...> wrote:
> > Hello George,
> >
> > the Numismatic Museum of Odessa has an image of what
> > they call a coin
> > of the 'Goths of Taman' on their web-site. Here is
> > the link, you have
> > to scroll down a little:
> >
> > http://www.museum.com.ua/en/editing/period2/
> >
> > As you will see these coins are completely different
> > from the coinage
> > of the Bosporan Kingdom.
>
> ****GK: There are visible similarities (in a general
> way) to coins such as the Panticapeum Diobol (period 1
> 5th c. BC), Sindic coins, Sarmatian imitations of
> Roman denarii (period 2 very close to the Goths), but
> certainly different from the standard classical coins
> of Bosporus. Thank you for the URL link. I had surfed
> through the Museum a few months ago but did not keep a
> record (I was trying to find the coins of Farzoi and
> Inismei !).******
>

Hello George,

can I ask what 'Sindic' means. Is that a people or kingdom?



>  (D) Firstly, these coins are never found together
> with
> > Borsporan coins.
>
> *****GK: This is strange. Usually "hoards" can have
> coins of various provenance.*****


Yes, but Kazamanova (I can get full references if desired)
specifically stated that these 'Gothic denars' never occur together
with Bosporan coins in hoards, which she took as indication that they
were made by different people.





>
> >(D) Their main region of occurance is the southern
> > coasts of the Crimea,
> > the Kerch peninsula and the Taman peninsula.
>
> ****GK: Much of this is also the area of the Bosporan
> Kingdom. But then we also (later?)have the "Gothae
> Tetraxitae" here.*****


In the Russian/Ukrainian literature, the coins were also
called 'moneti neizvestnogo naroda', i.e. coins of the unknown
people. Can you venture a guess who could have produced highly
abstract imitations of Roman denari in this area between 260AD and
360AD?

The interesting thing is that these coins quickly declined in purity.
Thus, only the very first issues are of reasonably good silver. The
vast majority are of billon, copper and brass. This means that for
abour a hundred years people in this area were using a 'token-
coinage' without intrinsic value. This requires a great deal of
political stability and trust, as people do not easily depart with
goods in exchange for essentially worthless metall pieces.

One other interesting feature of these coins is the design. As you
saw on the Odessa web-site, the averse depicts a highly stylised form
of the emperor's head surrounded by little strokes or crecents that
take the place of the legend. The reverse shows the equally stylised
figure of a person holding a lance. Next to this figure are
combinations of Os, Xs, Ts or crosses. While the figure with the
lance remains mostly discernible, the head of the emperor eventually
becomes a mere pattern. On some of the coins this patter is replaced
by a central cross surrounded by rays emanating from the centre of
the cross. It is whoever unclear if this is really a christian
symbol.

cheers,
Dirk










> >
> >(D) However, in my view there are some counter
> > arguments. Firstly, the
> > appearance of Goths on the Crimean and Taman as
> > early as 260AD is not
> > accepted by all historians, although I read articles
> > by Ukrainian
> > archaeologists (Aleksander Ajbabin)who clearly state
> > that permanent
> > Gothic settlement appear on the Crimea as early as
> > 240AD.
> >
> > I have to stop here, but would like to discuss this
> > further....
>
> ******GK: Please do! And thanks, this is
> fascinating****
> >
> >
> > cheers
> > Dirk
>
> Ditto, George
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> > > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Tiny Wireless Camera under $80!
Order Now! FREE VCR Commander!
Click Here - Only 1 Day Left!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/wWMplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/