[gothic-l] Genetic diversity

[Sahin Ahmet]

Dear Ximenez,
Thank you for explanations.They are convincing enough.However could you attach related documents to an email to my personal adress?
I have read from a greek script in ephesus that ephesus was invaded by goths.Does any one know about the gothic presence in anatolia?
  "F. E. Ximenez" <jimenezf01 at mail.montclair.edu> wrote: Dear Sahin,
Thanks for your interest and kind comments.
Your question, is pertinent to our discussion about ancestral claims to individuals that either identify themselves as or have been categorized into cultural, linguistic or religious groupings; specifically those in Iberia
contemporaneous to the Toledan Gothia. Thus I think the thread is still pertinent to this group's interests.

The information you requested is below. So that you know, the study is published and can probably be acquired at, or ordered from, the periodicals section of a university or good library; sometimes they can be found on the net..
I "usually" provide the sources and citations that are attendant to my remarks so that anyone interested can acquire the material, since it is prohibitive (time wise) to make such things available on the list. Obviously, I am always
glad (if time allows) to "try" to help with questions that arise ("after" the sources are read) or with specific items that seem nebulous or that are not covered by the sources cited but I am usually in the field (digging holes) at
this time of year.

Sahin Ahmet wrote:

> Dear Ximenez,
>  I must say I am impressed with your findings, however which part of the iberian peninsula do you mean.

The study sampled populations in the the Iberian peninsula but also sampled (previously unsampled) populations in (North Africa) thought to have contributed to the Iberian gene pool. It also compared its findings (see conclusions)
against the data from other studies of genetic diversity from northern, western, and central  Europe. The study is quite involved and highly technical. The samples were analyzed in several different ways, i.e., by region and by
population and has many other considerations too lengthy to cover here.

PROTOCOL:
The study sampled blood from 271 unrelated individuals.
The team extracted mtDNA from the samples using the Chelex method under laboratory conditions.
The geographical location of the donors was as follows:

CHOSEN FROM THE IBERIAN PENINSULA:
47- individuals from the province of Alava.
14- from the province of Vizcaya (Basque Country).
30- individuals from northern Spain (Castilian speaking individuals from Alava)
15- individuals from Catalonia.
15- individuals from Andalusia.
11- individuals chosen from the remaining regions of Spain.
54- individuals from throughout Portugal.

CHOSEN FROM NORTH AFRICA:
85- individuals from among the Mozabites. (An isolated Berber speaking population from Ghardaia in northern Algeria.)

ADDITIONAL DATA SETS INCORPORATED INTO THE ANALYSIS:
45- individuals from the Guipuzcoa province in the Basque region.
49- individuals from Tuscany.

The results were then compared to existing studies of mtDNA from central and northern Europe.


> I do not think iberian peninsula does  have a very uniform DNA pattern. do you speak of andalucia? or catalania, extramadurra?

Human variation is rather complicated and takes a while to understand.
It is difficult enough to discuss specialized technical information (not to mention the jargon involved), nonetheless, I think I might know what you want to say by your choice of the word (uniform).
This answer may sound a little confusing.
There is a good bit of genetic variation in Europe but the variation is rather uniform throughout Europe (with the exception of a few lineages in certain fringe areas of the continent). Thus, (with the exception of a few lineages) the
same variation is present just about everywhere, though it varies insofar as the concentrations of specific lineages within geographical boundaries. Thus, sometimes a preponderance of a certain lineage/s are present to a greater
degree within a certain geographical region of a specific country, but even then, one will find other lineages (at a reduced rate). Such is the case for certain areas of Spain (Andalusia the Basque region and Galicia) but it is also
true of the British Isles (Wales, I think) and other places as well.

>
> To what extent DNA analysis is reliable?

"DNA analysis" when handled by a reputable laboratory is on the whole, extremely reliable. The way that experiments are designed to make use of DNA analysis may at times have some faults.


> What do you mean by central or northern europe(slavic,germanic?).

The relative regional areas of the countries of Denmark, Sweden, The British Isles, Germany, Switzerland, France. Unfortunately there has been a lack of research on Eastern Europe.


> Did you have any information about DNA anlaysis in anatolia.

See "From Asia to Europe: mitochondrial DNA sequence variability in Bulgarians and Turks" F.Calafell, P. Underhill, A. Tolun, D. Angelicheva, L. Kalaydjieva- Unitat d' Antropologia, Facultat de Biologia, Universitat de Barcelona,
Diagonal 645, 08028 Barcelona Spain. ---- (An extremely interesting study). http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications.html

Cheers,
F.X.


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