[gothic-l] Re: archaeology and the gothic question

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., george knysh <gknysh at y...> wrote:
>
> --- Fernando Jimenez <jimenezf01 at m...>
> Off the
> > cuff, they appear to be "Alanic", (a group against
> > whom the Visigoths
> > waged war).
>
> ******GK: True for some periods. Keep in mind however
> that the historical post-376 "Visigoths" included
> ethnic elements from further east (Greuthungian and
> Alanic-- those who fled from the Huns with Alatheus
> and Saphrax for instance). It is now established as
> solidly as these things can be that (unlike the Slavs)
> most of the Alans and Late Scythians who symbiotized
> with the Goths prior to the Hunnic onslaught migrated
> westward. The appearance of their graves among Gothic
> groups throughout Western Europe should therefore
> cause no particular surprise.********
>


Hello Alfonso, Fernando and George (good to see you're back)

this is a very interesting discussion and I hope that Alfonso and
Fernando continue to report about their archaeological findings on
this list. I agree with George's point that ethnical attributions of
archaeological cultures are problematic and I am sure that Fernando
and Alfonso share the point, especicially since also the Visigoths
will have incorporated an Alanic/Sarmatian element. Hence, up until
238AD Sarmato-Dacian tribes like the Carpi were still dominante in
areas like Moesia/Thrace and/or the Carpathian mountains. These
groups like the powerful and belligerent Carpi, however, disappeared
from historical records in the subsequent period and will likely have
been absorbed into a new Gothic/Visigothic ethnogenesis. Hence, it
would become difficult to decide if a certain grave type belonged to
gothicised Alans or Goths who had adopted an Alanic custom. On the
other hand, as Fernando suggested it is also possible that these were
Alans who belonged to the group of invaders of Vandals and Sueves who
had crossed the Rhine in 406AD and who were defeated by the
Visigothic federates of Rome in 416AD (?). I suppose a comparison
with the likely settlement areas of these Alans and the timeframe
(their remainders left Spain with the Vandals in 429AD) could shed
some light on a possible attribution.

cheers,
Dirk






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