[gothic-l] Re: The Gothic Migration Epic

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
> There most certainly is no truth in the matter
> of the Gothic peoples origin.


Of course there is a truth and it is the task of science, and
especially archaeology to uncover this truth. If there were no truth,
scientists could not work on this subject!



It so happens
> I know something about the preparations
> for the ZDF TV-series and leading scholars
> on Gothic history were consulted.


One would hope that this is the case, Peter Arens, the author of the
programme and the accompanying book is after all 'only' a journalist
and head of 'history and society' at Germany's ZDF TV station. Such
programmes and books have obvious constraints and limitations. They
have to appeal to a broad audience. They are usually less strict with
scientific standards and more open to speculation and prone to
outright mistakes.




>
> It is basically one person who is promoting
> the "truth line" while others are continuing
> to offer the more realistic line of a more
> drawn out migration from Scandinavia of
> smaller groups.


Who are those scholars who are disputing the findings of 50 years of
archaeological research on the Goths and Wielbark culture? Can you
provide the names and their publications, in which they make those
claims.



The old image of mass
> migration has changed but the new history
> of Gothic emigration from Scandinavia is
> certainly not that of a Polish origin in
> Gothiscandza.


It certainly is. For the 1000th time, the Wielbark and Oksywie
cultures are authochonous they did not come from anywhere else. There
was neither a mass migration nor a protracted migration, but there
has been spuradic contact. But the fact remains the Wielbark culture
of the Goths is authochonous and its closests relatives live south of
it. This is a fact that all serious archaeologists accept and confirm.



>
> I guess "Storm over Europe" is the final straw
> for the view that the Scandinavian origin is
> only presented by older Scandinavian scholars.
> The Scandinavian migration saga of the Goths
> and the Gepids is now presented on best
> TV-time all over Europe supported by a 400
> pages volume with scholarly comment.
>
> The turning point came in 2002. Sure, a few
> archaelogists here and there will continue
> to produce material that few people outside
> the academic community read.


As several other members on this list have pointed out repeatedly
you  really are a wonder of stubborness and blindness to scientific
research and facts. The fact that a mistake or outdated theory is
repeated in mass media does not make it right. You clearly have never
read the relevant literature. With your last sentence you show that
you don't care about the findings of academics as long as the
old 'mis-interpretations' are circulated. You even resort to your
standard practice of 'belittling' everybody who contradicts your
view.

You should by now have realised that you have not a hint of
credibility left on this list. Virtually any topic on this list was
hijacked by you and ultimately drowned with this age old Scandinavian
Gothicism. Note, that the people who are the subject of this list,
i.e. the Goths of the Vistual, Black Sea region, the Balkan, Italy
and Spain have practically nothing to do with Scandinavia. Yet, we
constantly debate the supposed origin of the Goths from Scandinavia
and what is more you have not even read the relevant literature to be
able to engage in such a debate.

We all make mistakes from time to time, which should not be a
problem, but for the sake of this discussion forum I would urge you
to practice some sort of self-constraint, otherwise you damage this
list beyond repair.

Dirk









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