[gothic-l] The Gothic Migration Epic

Wed Mar 13 12:43:31 UTC 2002

In the case of the question of the origin of
the Goths it is highly unlikely that some "truth"
will be uncovered. There is a lot of information.
Some of this comes from some archaelogists.
Their results can only provide a very small
piece of the whole picture. The recent book
_Storm over Europe_ with its extensive
scientific advise is the latest, and most important,
contribution and it is highly unlikely it will be
matched soon. Not a few article in some academic reviews on a
detail of the complicated subject can change that.

The TV series is based on a 400 page book
and it will be a great pleasure for me to
provide the names of the highly qualified
scientist advisers to ZDF. Your general
assumptions and downgradings of this
project are not based on any knowledge,
just assumptions.

Oh, I was refering to one on this list.

"All serious archaelogists". Just throwing around
names is not going to help. Why don't you put up some
of the works of those you are referring to. Seemingly
you have been shocked by the ZDF TV-series
and cannot provide any reliable material to
refute years of research done in preparation
for the ZDF series and the book.

An important part of the TV-series (but surely
also confirmed in the book) is the work of
Hungarians to recreate the images of Goths
from Gothic grave find skulls.

The TV-program related, which of course is natural
in any history of the Goths, the myth of the three
ships bringing Goths and Gepids to Gothiscandza.

The matter of the boat grave in Poland, similar
to the Scandinavian ship graves, has been brought
to attention.

The difference between Gothic and Scandinavian
male graves is that Gothic men were not buried
with weapons.

The program, quite correctly, referred to the extensive
trade going on between Romans and Goths from
Scandinavia to the Mediterranean. Combs were for
instance along with fur a common product Gothic-
Scandinavian export. It is quite natural that the Goths
wanted to trade with their families back in Scandinavia
and the continental Goths most likely provided a link
between the Romans and their home in Scandinavia.

Gothically

Bertil

> Of course there is a truth and it is the task of science, and
> especially archaeology to uncover this truth. If there were no truth,
> scientists could not work on this subject!

> One would hope that this is the case, Peter Arens, the author of the
> programme and the accompanying book is after all 'only' a journalist
> and head of 'history and society' at Germany's ZDF TV station. Such
> programmes and books have obvious constraints and limitations. They
> have to appeal to a broad audience. They are usually less strict with
> scientific standards and more open to speculation and prone to
> outright mistakes.

> Who are those scholars who are disputing the findings of 50 years of
> archaeological research on the Goths and Wielbark culture? Can you
> provide the names and their publications, in which they make those
> claims.

> It certainly is. For the 1000th time, the Wielbark and Oksywie
> cultures are authochonous they did not come from anywhere else. There
> was neither a mass migration nor a protracted migration, but there
> has been spuradic contact. But the fact remains the Wielbark culture
> of the Goths is authochonous and its closests relatives live south of
> it. This is a fact that all serious archaeologists accept and confirm.

> As several other members on this list have pointed out repeatedly
> you  really are a wonder of stubborness and blindness to scientific
> research and facts. The fact that a mistake or outdated theory is
> repeated in mass media does not make it right. You clearly have never
> read the relevant literature. With your last sentence you show that
> you don't care about the findings of academics as long as the
> old 'mis-interpretations' are circulated. You even resort to your
> standard practice of 'belittling' everybody who contradicts your
> view.
>
> You should by now have realised that you have not a hint of
> credibility left on this list. Virtually any topic on this list was
> hijacked by you and ultimately drowned with this age old Scandinavian
> Gothicism. Note, that the people who are the subject of this list,
> i.e. the Goths of the Vistual, Black Sea region, the Balkan, Italy
> and Spain have practically nothing to do with Scandinavia. Yet, we
> constantly debate the supposed origin of the Goths from Scandinavia
> and what is more you have not even read the relevant literature to be
> able to engage in such a debate.
>
> We all make mistakes from time to time, which should not be a
> problem, but for the sake of this discussion forum I would urge you
> to practice some sort of self-constraint, otherwise you damage this
> list beyond repair.

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Access Your PC from Anywhere
It's Easy. It's Fast. - Free Download
http://us.click.yahoo.com/AxtVhB/6XkDAA/_ZuFAA/wWMplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/