[gothic-l] Re: The Gothic Migration Epic

[Lada]

----- Original Message -----
From: faltin2001 <dirk at smra.co.uk>
To: <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 1:07 PM
Subject: [gothic-l] Re: The Gothic Migration Epic


> --- In gothic-l at y..., "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
> > There most certainly is no truth in the matter
> > of the Gothic peoples origin.
>
>
> Of course there is a truth and it is the task of science, and
> especially archaeology to uncover this truth. If there were no truth,
> scientists could not work on this subject!
>
>
>
> It so happens
> > I know something about the preparations
> > for the ZDF TV-series and leading scholars
> > on Gothic history were consulted.
>
>
> One would hope that this is the case, Peter Arens, the author of the
> programme and the accompanying book is after all 'only' a journalist
> and head of 'history and society' at Germany's ZDF TV station. Such
> programmes and books have obvious constraints and limitations. They
> have to appeal to a broad audience. They are usually less strict with
> scientific standards and more open to speculation and prone to
> outright mistakes.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > It is basically one person who is promoting
> > the "truth line" while others are continuing
> > to offer the more realistic line of a more
> > drawn out migration from Scandinavia of
> > smaller groups.
>
>
> Who are those scholars who are disputing the findings of 50 years of
> archaeological research on the Goths and Wielbark culture? Can you
> provide the names and their publications, in which they make those
> claims.
>
>
>
> The old image of mass
> > migration has changed but the new history
> > of Gothic emigration from Scandinavia is
> > certainly not that of a Polish origin in
> > Gothiscandza.
>
>
> It certainly is. For the 1000th time, the Wielbark and Oksywie
> cultures are authochonous they did not come from anywhere else. There
> was neither a mass migration nor a protracted migration, but there
> has been spuradic contact. But the fact remains the Wielbark culture
> of the Goths is authochonous and its closests relatives live south of
> it. This is a fact that all serious archaeologists accept and confirm.
>
>
>
> >
> > I guess "Storm over Europe" is the final straw
> > for the view that the Scandinavian origin is
> > only presented by older Scandinavian scholars.
> > The Scandinavian migration saga of the Goths
> > and the Gepids is now presented on best
> > TV-time all over Europe supported by a 400
> > pages volume with scholarly comment.
> >
> > The turning point came in 2002. Sure, a few
> > archaelogists here and there will continue
> > to produce material that few people outside
> > the academic community read.
>
>
> As several other members on this list have pointed out repeatedly
> you  really are a wonder of stubborness and blindness to scientific
> research and facts. The fact that a mistake or outdated theory is
> repeated in mass media does not make it right. You clearly have never
> read the relevant literature. With your last sentence you show that
> you don't care about the findings of academics as long as the
> old 'mis-interpretations' are circulated. You even resort to your
> standard practice of 'belittling' everybody who contradicts your
> view.
>
> You should by now have realised that you have not a hint of
> credibility left on this list. Virtually any topic on this list was
> hijacked by you and ultimately drowned with this age old Scandinavian
> Gothicism. Note, that the people who are the subject of this list,
> i.e. the Goths of the Vistual, Black Sea region, the Balkan, Italy
> and Spain have practically nothing to do with Scandinavia. Yet, we
> constantly debate the supposed origin of the Goths from Scandinavia
> and what is more you have not even read the relevant literature to be
> able to engage in such a debate.
>
> We all make mistakes from time to time, which should not be a
> problem, but for the sake of this discussion forum I would urge you
> to practice some sort of self-constraint, otherwise you damage this
> list beyond repair.
>
> Dirk
>
>
>  I cannot but add that science is now discarding the theories of invasions
and is turning to synthesis theory (as in the case of celtic expansion) . So
we should think of certain archaelogical cultures as cultures, not peoples.
It is plausible that a part of a nation would come into the sphere of
influence of one culture and other parts not. Besides, how can you tell that
Goths began their migrations as a single people and not as a confederacy,
the latter being tur of Anglo - Saxons, Franks and probably Vandals.
       I guess that all of the theses mentioned in this discussion do
contain a part of the truth, and the dogmatism shown by some will not lead
us to it.
                                             Il Akkad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>




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