[gothic-l] POST EDITING

Wed Mar 13 16:06:51 UTC 2002

Friendly request

Try to not include the last previous ten or twenty posts -- and ALWAYS --
put what you are adding new at the VERY TOP -- or if you must repsond
interlineary -- keep it to a minimun -- it just that I want to following
the argument with out going blind trying to find the new posts ---
  thanks

Stephen Mark Carey, Ph.D.
Department of German Studies
117 Trimble Hall
Emory University
Atlanta, GA 30322
(404) 727 0820

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Lada wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: faltin2001 <dirk at smra.co.uk>
> To: <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 1:07 PM
> Subject: [gothic-l] Re: The Gothic Migration Epic
>
>
> > --- In gothic-l at y..., "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
> > > There most certainly is no truth in the matter
> > > of the Gothic peoples origin.
> >
> >
> > Of course there is a truth and it is the task of science, and
> > especially archaeology to uncover this truth. If there were no truth,
> > scientists could not work on this subject!
> >
> >
> >
> > It so happens
> > > I know something about the preparations
> > > for the ZDF TV-series and leading scholars
> > > on Gothic history were consulted.
> >
> >
> > One would hope that this is the case, Peter Arens, the author of the
> > programme and the accompanying book is after all 'only' a journalist
> > and head of 'history and society' at Germany's ZDF TV station. Such
> > programmes and books have obvious constraints and limitations. They
> > have to appeal to a broad audience. They are usually less strict with
> > scientific standards and more open to speculation and prone to
> > outright mistakes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > It is basically one person who is promoting
> > > the "truth line" while others are continuing
> > > to offer the more realistic line of a more
> > > drawn out migration from Scandinavia of
> > > smaller groups.
> >
> >
> > Who are those scholars who are disputing the findings of 50 years of
> > archaeological research on the Goths and Wielbark culture? Can you
> > provide the names and their publications, in which they make those
> > claims.
> >
> >
> >
> > The old image of mass
> > > migration has changed but the new history
> > > of Gothic emigration from Scandinavia is
> > > certainly not that of a Polish origin in
> > > Gothiscandza.
> >
> >
> > It certainly is. For the 1000th time, the Wielbark and Oksywie
> > cultures are authochonous they did not come from anywhere else. There
> > was neither a mass migration nor a protracted migration, but there
> > has been spuradic contact. But the fact remains the Wielbark culture
> > of the Goths is authochonous and its closests relatives live south of
> > it. This is a fact that all serious archaeologists accept and confirm.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I guess "Storm over Europe" is the final straw
> > > for the view that the Scandinavian origin is
> > > only presented by older Scandinavian scholars.
> > > The Scandinavian migration saga of the Goths
> > > and the Gepids is now presented on best
> > > TV-time all over Europe supported by a 400
> > > pages volume with scholarly comment.
> > >
> > > The turning point came in 2002. Sure, a few
> > > archaelogists here and there will continue
> > > to produce material that few people outside
> > > the academic community read.
> >
> >
> > As several other members on this list have pointed out repeatedly
> > you  really are a wonder of stubborness and blindness to scientific
> > research and facts. The fact that a mistake or outdated theory is
> > repeated in mass media does not make it right. You clearly have never
> > read the relevant literature. With your last sentence you show that
> > you don't care about the findings of academics as long as the
> > old 'mis-interpretations' are circulated. You even resort to your
> > standard practice of 'belittling' everybody who contradicts your
> > view.
> >
> > You should by now have realised that you have not a hint of
> > credibility left on this list. Virtually any topic on this list was
> > hijacked by you and ultimately drowned with this age old Scandinavian
> > Gothicism. Note, that the people who are the subject of this list,
> > i.e. the Goths of the Vistual, Black Sea region, the Balkan, Italy
> > and Spain have practically nothing to do with Scandinavia. Yet, we
> > constantly debate the supposed origin of the Goths from Scandinavia
> > and what is more you have not even read the relevant literature to be
> > able to engage in such a debate.
> >
> > We all make mistakes from time to time, which should not be a
> > problem, but for the sake of this discussion forum I would urge you
> > to practice some sort of self-constraint, otherwise you damage this
> > list beyond repair.
> >
> > Dirk
> >
> >
> >  I cannot but add that science is now discarding the theories of invasions
> and is turning to synthesis theory (as in the case of celtic expansion) . So
> we should think of certain archaelogical cultures as cultures, not peoples.
> It is plausible that a part of a nation would come into the sphere of
> influence of one culture and other parts not. Besides, how can you tell that
> Goths began their migrations as a single people and not as a confederacy,
> the latter being tur of Anglo - Saxons, Franks and probably Vandals.
>        I guess that all of the theses mentioned in this discussion do
> contain a part of the truth, and the dogmatism shown by some will not lead
> us to it.
>                                              Il Akkad
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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