[gothic-l] Re: Gothic Advantages- Horses-

[keth at ONLINE.NO]

*** Hæ Einar,

þú skrifaðir::
>--- In gothic-l at y..., keth at o... wrote:
>> Tore wrote:
>
>### Hæ Keth.
>
> I am almost sure that the Norwegian races have been compared to the 
>Icelandic horse using methods like DNA analysis too.

I think it was 5 years ago that we discussed this on Oldnorsenet,
and the article in question (sorry, I don't have a copy any
more) was maybe 30 years old then, and I recall reading
about all sorts of tabulated bone measurements.

The difficulty with such comparisons is of course that
the horses adapt to their environment. This is merely
the law of evolution, viz. that those who are best adapted
to the environment are the ones that have the greatest
chance of survival. If humans then intervene, in addition
to the natural selection processes, you will see great
changes taking place in the genetic pool very quickly.

I also recall speaking to a genticist I know quite well,
who 10 years ago said that most genetic research was
focused on mapping human diseases, and that applying DNA
analysis methods to archaeology was only of very secondary
interest in comparison.

But of course, a lot can have happened in the last 5 or 10
years.

The Nordland horse then, that isn't very well known abroad,
used to live only in the very northernparts of Norway.
The Nordland enthusiast in fact believe it is a race that
descended from the horses of the Huns. But whether this is
just fancy, or has some basis in reality I do not know.

The problem, as always, is that one needs archaeological
samples of the horses that the Huns actually did have.
It will not suffice to track down possible descendants
of the Huns and look what horses they have today, because
1600 years of selective breeding may in fact have  changed the stock.

But personally, I do think it ought to be quite interesting
to look at the horses they have in Central Asia, and that
are still used there.


>I am almost sure too, that the results were conclusive. The Icelandic 
>horse is not genetically related to the Norwegian races.

Could be.  If you have any references for this research, I would 
sure like to know. Because then I'll send it to Al Clemens,
who I am sure would be very eager to learn about it. He wrote several
articles about a possible pre-Columbian Norse/American horse
connection. (:The Vinland Viking horses)

With regard to DNA research on bone material, I first thought
bones contained very little DNA material - too little to determine
the genes. But I may be wrong, because I believe I did read
somewhere about sufficient amounts being extracted from some
bone samples somewhere. But perhaps it does necessitate that
the bone is not totally dried out or petrified. If there is
someone who knows more about what the conditions are, I should
be very interested to learn more.

I should also like to mention the ponies that used to
live at "Karmøy"  (=Old Norse "Ko,rmt"). They were small
horses. Not domesticated, and they stayed outside all winter.
They are gone now, and I have no idea how to find out more
about what horses they may have been. But they too ought to
have been included in the research you mentioned about
establishing links between Iceland and Norway, horse-wise.





>But it does not prove anything.
>
>Came as a surprise to many. But comparing old skeletal remains in 
>Iceland,S-E Norway,Eeast-Sweden and in Heruli,Longobardic settlements 
>could give interesting results.
>
>Such a study needs to be done.


Well, there are of course the 15 Oseberg horse skeletons.
But I have no idea if the bones are in a condition where
it is possible to extract sufficient amounts of DNA.
(even if only very little is needed)

Are there any results for Cro Magnon, for example?
I haven't heard about it.


Best regards
Keth



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