[gothic-l] Namó Saúrtis jah namna funis

[M. Carver]

Hails

BTW re: the subject line: the gen. sg. of fon 'fire' is funins.

The main question concerning the vowels in s-rt- "black" is one of ablaut-gradation, ex. number 3 in section 61of
Gordon's grammar. ON shows this in svartr - Surtr. These belongs to gradation 3 (i.e. that of the strong verbs of
the 3rd conj.), which occurs before certain consonants: Gmc: eC - aC - uC, oC. In ON this shows that the adj. is the
second part, and the proper name the third part (with W+U > U assim., which occurs generally in Gmc.), which are in
verbs reserved for preterite sg. and pret. pl. (or pret. participle) respectively. In Gothic these forms should
regularly appear in the verb wairthan: [wairth-] - warth - waurthun (waurthan-); so also, we postulate the adj.
gradation thus, eliminating the first part which neither occurs in ON or Go. [swairt-] - swart- - saurt-*. *This
last form has: swurt- with [U+R breaking] and [W+U > U assim.], wherefore *Saurts. For W+U > U assim. in Gothic, see
Wright  ss146. If there was a strong relationship felt with 'swart-' however, it is possible that the older
theoretical form with -w- would have been retained: *Swaurts: cf. swultum beside swiltan, qumum beside qiman.

konrad_oddsson wrote:

> Háilái galistans allái!
>
> The following has come to light regarding "Saúrts":
>
> In Norse, the final fire by which the world is burned before the
> birth of a new one for gods and good Goths is called "Surtalogi".
> While there is only one Surtr in traditional "Gothdom", the form
> "Surta-" in the word "Surtalogi" would indicate by the rules of
> Norse grammar that there were more than one. "A-" appears in the
> genitive plural of Norse words, not in the gen. or dat. sg. of
> strong masc. nouns as the form "Surta-" would seem to indicate.
> Nevertheless, the form "Surtalogi" is firm and fast by tradition.
> On the basis of linguistic research into primitive Norse and Gothic,
> however, we can safely conclude that the dative case was once more
> varied in Norse than later proved true in the written Norse of later
> centuries. Thus, as Saúrts is much older than the Norse of the
> viking age and as Norse has otherwise been shown to retain archaic
> compound words of this type, I am forced to conclude that the
> form "Surtalogi" contains an example of a surviving primitive dative
> construction. This is certainly not without precedent in Norse.
> Also, forms like "Surtalogi" could become fixed by traditional use.
> This would lend strong support to the declension proposed in a
> previous post regarding the form and declension of the name in
> fourth century Gothic:
>
> N. Saúrts
> A. Saúrt
> G. Saúrtis
> D. Saúrta
>
> The dative "Saúrta" thus supported lends credence to a regular
> strong paradigm of this type.
>
> The second element in the Norse compound "Surtalogi" brings me to
> the other purpose of this post: an inquiry into terms for fire.
> Fourth century Gothic must have had many more words for fire than
> appear in the pages of that incomplete translation of a Greek
> translation of an Aramaic book that we are all presumably studying
> very diligently in our collective endeavor to master Gutiska!
>
> Here are some of the numerous words for fire & flame found in Norse:
>
> funi, Neut. (compare Goth. Neut. "fón")
> tandri, Masc.
> fúrr, Masc.
> logi, Masc.
> eldr, Masc.
> brími, Masc.
>
> These are a few of many such words in Norse. It also appears that
> the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes were linguistically wealthy in this
> area as well. As I am no expert in Anglo-Saxon, you are encouraged
> to cite more words of this type if you know of any. Here a couple:
>
> æled, Masc. (long Æ; see Norse "eldr" above)
> f?r, Neut. (see Norse "fúrr" above)
>
> Any other words for fire & flame from Anglo-Saxon or any another
> Germanic language would be welcome here. Finally, are there other
> attested words for fire or flame in Gothic than "fón"?
>
> Here is one possibility for Gothic: Masc. aílds N, aíld A, aílda D,
> aíldis G. Other potential nominitives would be: fura, tandra, luga,
> bríma, and so forth. Let us collect wood for the vocabulary fire!
>
> Regards,
> Konrad.
>
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