[gothic-l] Gothic word for wicca, and wicce

Sat Nov 16 17:02:05 UTC 2002

 -Hello Everyone!

 The word wælcyrige looks like an exact OE cognate for the ON Valkyrja, in
 fact I'm certain that it is. The meaning is the same as the ON in that the
 compound means "chooser of the slain" however I believe that the usage of
 this term wasn't quite as mythological amongst the other Germanic people as
 it is among the Norse.  I believe that the term was ascribed to the sort of
 use as the Gothic *haljaruna, It seems to be a designation for a woman with
 powers of divination that were believed to stem from the realm of the dead.
 I also mostly agree with Grimm's reconstructed *Walakusjo, however I think
 it may have been more like **Walakiusjo  since the Gothic word for "to
 choose" is Kiusan with an I before the u (note that this is an infinitive
so
 the suffix is different)
  as for a cognate for Wicca/Wicce Here is what Calvert Watkins says on the
 matter.
 -Wicca (masc.) Wicce (fem.)  along with wicked (I was wrong about there
 being no ModEng. cognate) are derived from the IE root, *weg- meaning to be
 strong or lively, from there we have the above mentioned OE forms, meaning
 "wizard" and then a reconstructed PrGmc *wikkjaz, "necromancer" ("one who
 wakes the dead").-
 so to find a Gothic equivalent, lets do a little reconstruction of our own,
 (the word hasn't survived to my knowledge in any extant Gothic text) we
know
 that from Proto-Germanic times to Gothic times there were a few important
 shifts which would effect our word.
 First there was the word stress rule which shifted stress to the initial
 syllable in most of the daughter languages of Proto-Germanic.  This
affected
 the suffix in that it was not pronounced as definitely, which turns our
word
 into an "East Germanic" sounding *wikkjz. then there was the "z-deletion"
 rule which devoiced or completely deleted (depending on environment) the
 sound z. Many Gothic forms preserve the Proto-Germanic suffix -az as -s
(-az
 > -z > -s) so its safe to say that the form is now *wikkjs, but the last
 change that we have to consider is the Gothic reflex of Sievers law which
 affects Proto-Germanic -ja class nouns (note *wikk-jaz.  The -ja is a
 subclass of the -a class) by placing an i before the j. Gothic has a reflex
 of this rule turning the Proto-Germanic -j- into an -i- before the -s
 since -js is usually an illegal combination in the word final position.  So
 now we have a hypothetical Gothic *Wikkis, whose meaning we can, never be
 too sure of apart from a general feeling of wizardry.
 I hope my nonsense is of some help to someone

 -Aaron

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Le Bateman" <LeBateman at NetZero.Net>
> To: <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 12:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [gothic-l] Gothic word for wicca, and wicce
>
>
> > Hails Aaron et  al
> >      There is a word wicca used in 10th century Anglo-Saxon England.
> > Wulfstan used it in his Address  to the English. I am sorry that I did
not
> > make myself clear. I am looking for perhaps the Gothic counterpart to
the
> > Anglo-Saxon words wicca ( msc n) and wicce ( fem. n) any definition
would
> > help. I thought it was like the ME English word Wicker. See Wulfstan
> > translates the word wicca as Wizard now Henry Sweet  uses the  Feminine
> form
> > wicce for witch, but Wulfstan uses the word wælcyrige for witch. I was
> > looking for the equivelant to these, the definition and the sources. I
> > thought it meant to bend, crook.  Someone from another list said it
meant
> > wise. Thank you
> > Le
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Aaron Holt" <Holtingar at ccis.net>
> > To: <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 4:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: [gothic-l] Gothic word for wicca, and wicce
> >
> >
> > In follow-up to my last post, I would like to point out that I'm unsure
if
> > Le was looking for the modern, new-age, word Wicca, as in the religion.
> > There is an OE word wicce but there is absolutely no reference to use of
> the
> > OE word wicce in terms of the above religious categorization, since the
> > religion Wicca (note the final a instead of e) is mainly a product of
the
> > 1960's. However the word is used to mean something like "necromancer" or
> > "sorceror" (if I can remember what source material I found this in I'll
> post
> > it later) and is the root word for the modern Wicca. It is an incorrect
> > etym. that places the word Witch as a derivative of this word. In fact,
> > apart from the revived and semanticly different usage there is no
> derivative
> > of the word in Modern English.
> >
> > -Aaron
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Le Bateman" <LeBateman at NetZero.Net>
> > To: <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 10:38 PM
> > Subject: [gothic-l] Gothic word for wicca, and wicce
> >
> >
> > >   I would like to know the Gothic word for wicca, and wicce and any
> proto
> > > Gothic word, and  what the root is and the sources for this please.
Also
> > the
> > > definition as well. Someone from another list told me it meant wisdom.
I
> > had
> > > seen
> > > a definition to bend or to  twist. Also just curious  in Wulfstan's
> > Address
> > > to the English. He uses the word wælcyrige  what Gothic equivalent is
> > there.
> > > Thank you
> > > Le
> > >
> > >
> > >
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