[gothic-l] Greutung, Reidgotland

[george knysh]

--- åÇÏÒÏ× ÷ÌÁÄÉÍÉÒ <vegorov at ipiran.ru> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> George Knysh asked me about my conclusions on
> origins of the ethnonym Rus. The matter is not so
> easy to be expounded in a few sentences.
> Nevertheless, if it is of interest, I try to explain
> my position in brief.
>
> First of all, the ethnonym Rus can't be evolved from
> Sweden or some rivers near Kiev.

******GK: Agreed*****

 First known
> mentioning a people Rus (Ros) relate to the sixth
> century AD (Zakharia Ritor) who placed this people
> to Northwest from Caucasus.

******GK: Not really. ZR speaks of "Hros", a people so
big that "horses cannot carry them". This is a
fantastic story and it isn't even clear that the term
is not a garble for something else. Some scholars even
opine "heroes". Scratch that.******

 In the seventh century,
> the Derbent's ruler Shahriar complained that he
> found himself between two aggressors, Khazars and
> Russes.

*****GK: The mention of Russes is believed to be a
later interpolation. There is no confirmation of
"Russes" in the 7th c. in the Caucasus as a people
equal to the Khazars.******

 I won't list further numerous mentions of
> Russes as a seafarers' people that ravaged coasts of
> the Black Sea since VI century and of the Caspian
> Sea and Mediterranean since VII century.

*****GK:Thank God for that. The centuries ar
inaccurate.******

 No Swedes
> existed that time, and the Viking Age didn't begin
> yet. I'm convicted that sources of the ethnonym Rus
> should be searched somewhere on Northeast coasts of
> the Black Sea. Note that the latter had that time
> two names: Greek Pontus (I use a "Romanized" form)
> and "Russian" Sea (I quote "Russian" because it had
> that time another meaning than nowadays).

******GK: Many scholar believe that "Rus'skoe" should
be emended to "Rums'koe" i.e. the Roman (or Romean)
Sea. I tend to agree with them.*****

 I'm also
> convicted that sources of the ethnonym Rus should be
> searched starting from IV-V centuries.
>
> Second. I agree with the commonly accepted point of
> view that the etycon "rus" is derivative from
> Finnish "ruotsi" (as Finns name Swedes). For the
> ancient Russian languafe there is a general
> paradigm:
>
> ÓÕÍØ < suomi,
> ÒÕÓØ < ruotsi.
> (you need here the Cyrillic alphabet in your
> computer).

******GK: Here I disagree. I believe that Finnish (and
Estonian) "Ruotsi" derives from "Rus'" and not the
other way around. I accept the Indo-Iranian derivation
of the term.*****
>
> However, I do not accept derivation of "ruotsi" from
> Swedish "drotts". To my mind, more attractive is
> derivation from Gothic "rau?s", i.e. English "red".

*****GK: FINALLY, some linkage to the Goths. Not
particularly convincing or attractive, but
relevant.****

> This derivation looks linguistically irreproachable,
> but any linguistic evolution of ethnonyms must be
> reliably supported historically, otherwise it is not
> worth a brass farthing.

*****GK: Agreed*****
>
> Looking for historical proofs of this derivation and
> bearing in mind the Northeast coasts of the Black
> Sea led me to Goths of III-IV centuries, more
> particularly to tribes that conquered the Bospor
> Kingdom in the middle of the III century AD. This
> conclusion involves Ostrogoths (Greutungs?) and
> relates, to a certain extent, to Reidgotaland, which
> I partially identify with the Hermanaricus' Empire
> of Jordan.

*****GK: Forget all the preceding [prior to Rus'=
Rau?s" and try to develop this aspect of your
argument.****

 And now I'm searching something common
> for "rau?s" ("hrau?s"?), "Greutung" ("Hraudung"?),
> and "Reidgotaland" ("Hraud-Gotaland"?). This is the
> reason of my initial questions.

*****GK: Deconfuse me. Are you saying that Greutung,
Reidgotaland, are linked to "Rau?s" which is the
source of "Rus'"?******
>
> Regards,
> V. Egorov
>
>
>
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