[gothic-l] Re: Continued Review of _Odin in Azov_

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Thor Heyerdahl - Per Lilliestroem, Jakten pa Odin -
> Pa sporet av var fortid, Oslo, Norway, J.M. Stenersens Forlag, 2001.
> 320 pages.
> ____________________________________________________
> 
> Per Lilliestrom: På 200-tallet var gepidene en del av den 
opprinnelige
> gotiske stammen som dannet en egen fraksjon og dro vestover. De 
gikk 
> inn i historien som visigotere eller vestgotere. Pa 300-tallet
> under kong Ermanrik, nadde ostrogoterne den stoerste utbrdelse
> av sitt herredoemme, og som haerfoerer er Ermanrik blitt 
sammenlignet
> med Alexander den store. Men da hunerne i ar 375 kom stormende
> pa hesteryggen fra oest, ble han sveket av noen av sine heruliske
> undersatter, som gikk over til fienden. Etter a ha lidd nederlag 
mot hunerne,
> forsoekte Ermanrik a hevne seg pa en av de svikefulle heruliske
> hoevdingene. Men da han ikke klarte a fa fatt pa denne hoevdingen,
> hevnet han seg ved a la hoevdingens hustru, Sunilda, slites i 
stykker mellom 
> to hester.  Noen historikere mener at han begikk rituelt selvmord, 
andre
> tror at denne ostrogoternes stoerste haerfoerer doede i en grotesk 
> blodhevnkamp med herulernes kongeklan, rosomonene, som Sunilda
> tilhoerte. Den grufulle og tragiske skjebnen til Sunilda, eller 
Svanhilde
> som hun ogsa ble kalt, ble et populaert motiv i den germanske saga-
> litteraturen, ikke minst pa Island, der temaet er tatt opp i 
Jormundreks-sagaen 
> og ogsa i to av eddadiktene.
> 
> Jordanes regarded the Gepidi as a Gothic people and am not aware of 
any
> researchers who have another opinion. Personally I am a supporter 
of the
> Gepidi being treated on this list as Goths, and it would be 
interesting to know
> opinions on this matter.


This raises a wider and important question. What did it mean or 
entail to be a Goth? Was Gothic a religion, which Gepids (Gepidae) 
and other tribes could join, thus justifying the identification of 
Gepids with Goths? Clearly at the time of Jordanes and for several 
centuries before him being Gothic had no religious conotiation. The 
Goths were Arian Christians, being Gothic was a purely political 
term. That Gepids and Goths cannot have shared much of a common 
religious pre-Christian tradition is borne out be the fact that the 
Gepids did not share the Gothic practice of burying their dead 
without weapons. For the Goths this remained a defining element of 
their identity from their beginings in the Wielbark culture right to 
Italy and Gaul. Yet, Gepidic warriors went to their graves heavily 
armed.

So if Gepids were not Goths in a religious sense, is there evidence 
that they regarded themselves as identical (i.e. Gepids being Goths) 
in a political sense. We certainly have no evidence that Gepids 
called themselves Goths at occations. In fact, Gepids and Goths 
seemed to have had a hostile attitude towards each other for much of 
their known history. As we know, there has not been just one Gothic 
tribe, but several groups and several ethnogenesis. Thus, the Goths 
at the Black Sea were the product of a new ethnogenesis, combining 
several ethnic groups including non-Germanic groups. In the Balkan 
again, new Gothic groups formed, now combining people like Tracians, 
Dacian, Getae and others. Yet, while those groups which regarded 
themselves as Goths seemed to have maintained some sort of common 
link, the Gepids were consistently regarded as separate and mostly 
hostile polity. In this sense it it difficult to argue that Gepids 
are Goths or a Gothic people.  

Yet, Jordanes called the Gepids a Gothic people. What does that mean? 
Should that mean that the Gepids emerged out of the Goths? Possibly, 
but other authors call the Goths a Skythian people (as opposed to 
Germanic people). Would this then imply that the Goths are a Sythian 
splinter group? No, the term Gothic has increasingly superceded the 
term Scythian in my view. Thus, when ancient authors categories 
Gepids as Gothic people and Vandals as Gothic people (and Goths as 
Skythians) they probably wanted to say that these were **eastern** 
Barbarians as opposed to the Germanics.

The only way in which the Gepids may be labled a Gothic (speaking) 
people in a meaningful way might be in linguistic terms. As East 
Germanic people they probably spoke a language that was close or even 
identical to Gothic.

Dirk 



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