[gothic-l] Re: Analogy between fate of Eruli and Burgundians?

[george knysh]

--- "Dr. Dirk Faltin <dirk at smra.co.uk>"
<dirk at smra.co.uk> wrote:
> I still maintain that it is worth considering the
> fact that the
> Illyrian (and Thule) Heruls bore seemingly
> non-Germanic names
> (Grepes, Ochos, Datius, possibly even Aordos),
> causing one linguist
> to state that 'one is at a loss to comment on them',
> which could be
> indicative of a split-up along ethnically defined
> lines, with the
> Germanic Heruls moving to Italy and staying with the
> Langobards and
> the rest forced to wander around, exporing other
> options. I know of
> course that the evidence for this is slim at best,
> but at least there
> might be an indication here.

*****GK: One shouldn't make too much of the
non-Germanic names however. Note the following in
Jordanes(GETICA IX):
"nemo qui nesciat animadvertat usu pleraque nomina
gentes amplecti, ut Romani Macedonum, Greci Romanorum,
Sarmatae Germanorum, Gothi plerumque mutuantur
Hunnorum." Such borrowed names are a factor in the
determination of heterogeneity, but do not
automatically suggest it in the absence of other
indicators (which, thankfully, are there). There was a
similar debate a few years ago concerning the
ethnicity of the "Slavs" and "Antes" of the 6th c. The
late Harvard linguist Struminski argued that they were
in fact Goths (on the basis of the names of most of
their recorded leaders). But one could have made the
same point about Attila if all we had to work with was
his name.*****


>
> One (hopefully) final point. The Herulic armies
> which figured 3,000
> and 1,500 respectively may at that time already have
> attracted new
> followers of the regions where they were stationed.
> We know that the
> Visigoths were several times in their history
> supplemented by large
> numbers of slaves, Roman peasants and miners who
> became Visigoths.
> Similarly, a unit of Heruls does not have to include
> only the
> remnants of the once powerful Herulic tribe.

*****GK: That is a good point. How many such "new
recruits" are to be counted among the 1500+3000 is of
course difficult to say, but this goes some way
towards revising your earlier view of the Eruli as an
insignificant and dilapidated people after 509. *****



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