[gothic-l] Jats über alles??

Fri Jul 11 09:57:06 UTC 2003

It seems that some members of the Gothic list (namely Ravi and Sunny) 
are trying to persuade us that there must be some connection between 
the Indian Jats and the European Goths and/or Getae.
Their efforts recall for me other cases where people (including 
scholars) are trying to demonstrate that their own nation is 
something more special than others.
I'm Romanian, but ethnically I have also Hungarian and German origins 
(BTW, my last name is Hungarian).
I have read Romanians claiming that Romanian was the first language 
of civilization, that the Carpathian mountains were the cradle of 
civilization and that Latin and even Sanskrit are derived from the 
Romanian language.
I have read Hungarians claiming that Hungarian seems to be the oldest 
language of humankind and is closely related to Sumerian, but 
Hungarian is not possible to be derived from Sumerian, thus the 
Sumerians were an ancient Hungarian tribe, and Hungarian roots are to 
be found in the cultural words of all languages.
Let's not speak about the horrible Nazi ideology with "Deutschland 
über alles" and the superiority of the so-called "Arian" race.
But on the other hand, the Jews, who suffered the most because of 
this ideology, are also claiming that they are some "superior" race, 
based on the Old Testament where they are described as the "choosen 
people" of God.
And the examples could be multiplied. Some decades ago the official 
ideology of Turkey claimed that the Turks were at the origin of all 
civilization, and even trayed to demonstrate that the Turkish 
language descends from Hittite (the Indo-European character of the 
latter didn't matter for them).
I'm also member of the AN-Network, a discussion group on Austronesian 
(Austronesian is a large linguistic family, comprising Malay, 
Malagasy of Madagascar, the languages of Indonesia and of the 
Philippines, the languages of the Pacific islands – Melanesia, 
Micronesia, and Polynesia, as well as the aboriginal languages of 
Taiwan). There are some member of AN-Network, mainly of Philippinese 
origin, who are trying to demonstrate that Austronesians are at the 
origin of human civilization, claiming for instance that the oldest 
known civilization – the Sumerian – was established by some 
Austronesian tribes/clans, that the whole Indian culture comes from 
Austronesians, trying to demonstrate that the Dravidian languages and 
even Sanskrit are related to Austronesian languages, and such similar 
things. Even the name of Babylon they try to put in connection with a 
Philippinese tribal/geographical name. One of them claimed even that 
the non-Austronesian members of AN-Network have a lower 
understanding, being not able to understand such things (I was really 
upset by this flagrant piece of Austronesian racism!)
Now, the Jats. I have read in the JatHistory list (a Yahoo-group) a 
message (no. 93 of Jan 15, 2003, from JD Singhji) claiming that 
William the Conqueror was a Jat !! (???). The message sounds like 
this:
"Here is another interesting story from English history: 
- In 1066 AD, William the Conqueror (a Norman) defeated Saxon
King Harold in the battle of Hasting. It is said the
carnage to terrible but the Normans prevailed. Then
some 25,000 Normans enslaved 2+ million Saxons.
William was ruler of Normandy (present day France).
He was a Norman, The Normans were decendents of
Danes (Denmark). We know Denmark and Norway (e.g. Jutland) 
are related to Jat tribes. Their languages to this
day is close to Sanskrit. This makes William a
Jat...and Norman Jats went to rule England.
WOW - this is an incredible piece of history."
In another message (no. 177 of JatHistory) we can read: "In this 
grouping we can recognize many Scyth connected names, like  the 
Getae, Guti, Yuti and Goths. The gep root may be found in the  clan 
Gepidae which invaded Europe along with the Huns."
In a recent message to the Gothic-L (no. 7172 of Jul 11, 2003), Ravi 
wrote:
"If the information cited is valid, that tribes from " Scytia" came  
into what is now Germany (and further) and brought with them hemp and 
the usage of that word.
Who were these tribes, clans , from " Scythia". ?"
Taking into account the precedents, this seems a rhetorical question, 
the answer being probably like this: "of course, there were the Jat 
clans who brought with them hemp and the usage of that word". 
(following this reasoning, a Native American could claim that some 
Native American tribes or clans came from America in Europe, bringing 
with them tomato, tobacco, potato, etc. and the usage of these 
words!!!).
I don't want to offend anybody and I apologize if someone could feel 
offended by this message or if there was a missunderstanding from my 
side. But, believe me, I have enough from "Deutschland über 
alles", "Romanians über alles", "Hungarians über alles", "Turks über 
alles", "Jews über alles", "Austronesians über alles" etc. etc., I 
don't want now "Jats über alles".

Francisc

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