[gothic-l] Jordanes

[Sunny]

Hi All, at the request of Dirk, I have decided to go to the primary 
classical sources regarding Goths, I am led to none other than Goth 
Jordanes and his Getica (550 AD), as his book is the "closest we will 
ever come to Gothic History as told by Goths (Heather 1996: 13)." 

Heather, P. The Goths, Oxford. Blackwell Publishers: 1996.

Below you will find a few excerpts:  

"31) This land, I say,--namely, Scythia, stretching far and spreading 
wide,--has on the east the Seres, a race that dwelt at the very 
beginning of their history on the shore of the Caspian Sea. On the 
west are the Germans and the river Vistula; on the arctic side, 
namely the north, it is surrounded by Ocean; on the south by Persis, 
Albania, Hiberia, Pontus and the farthest channel of the Ister, which 
is called the Danube all the way from mouth to source."

Here when discussing the limits of Scythia Jordanes discusses the 
Germans as if they are a separate entity appearing in the west 
of "Scythia".  

"(41) Now Mars has always been worshipped by the Goths with cruel 
rites, and captives were slain as his victims. They thought that he 
who is the lord of war ought to be appeased by the shedding of human 
blood. To him they devoted the first share of the spoil, and in his 
honor arms stripped from the foe were suspended from trees. And they 
had more than all other races a deep spirit of religion, since the 
worship of this god seemed to be really bestowed upon their ancestor."

Comparative Mythology:

Roman Mars seems to corresp0nd with Greek Areos, who may have been 
borrowed by Scythian Ares – God of War.  We read from Herodotus that 
the Scythians made images, altars and sacrifices for Ares and no 
other god.   

So can the Scythian Ares, the Greek Areos, the Roman Mars, the German 
Tyr, and the Eddic Tuiw come from the same source – all god's of war? 
Otherwise is it mere coincidence that Tuesday or Tuiwsday is the same 
as Dies Martis in Latin and Mangalwar (day of Mars) in Hindi?

Further can Wednesday, which seems to be named after Woden or Odin, 
correspond to Mercury and also to Indian God Budha (not Gautama 
Buddha, but Budha, the God of Wisdom) – they all referred to as the 
God of Wisdom.  It goes without saying that Dies Mercurii is 
Wednesday in Latin, and in Hindi Wednesday is Budhwar or day of Budha 
(wisdom).  No wonder Tod writes, "The Scythians worshiped Mercury 
(Budha), Woden or Odin, and believed them to be his progeny (Tod 
1829: 72)."  

Tod, J. Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan. Vol. 1. Delhi. Motilal 
Banarsidass: 1971, First Published in 1829.

Monday – day of the Moon, Latin – dies Lunae, Indian Chandrawar or 
Somwar (Moon day).  

Sunday of course matches again with Latin Dies Solis, Indian 
Surajwar, Raviwar or Aditwar (Sun-Day).  Perhaps, Balder is 
equivalent to Greek Helios, Roman Apollo, and Scythian Oitosyros?  
Perhaps maybe even Slavonic Zorya?   In any event, John Rosenfield 
writes about the Indian Surya, the sun-god, "One indication of the 
importance of foreign, especially Indo-Scythian, influence on the 
solar cult is the very fact that some early images of Surya are so 
similar to Kushan royal portraits that it is possible to confuse one 
with the other (Rosenfield 1967: 190)."

Rosenfield, J. M. The Dynastic Art of the Kushans. Berkeley. 
University of California Press: 1967.

"(44) Then, as the story goes, Vesosis waged a war disastrous to 
himself against the Scythians, whom ancient tradition asserts to have 
been the husbands of the Amazons. Concerning these female warriors 
Orosius speaks in convincing language. Thus we can clearly prove that 
Vesosis then fought with the Goths, since we know surely that he 
waged war with the husbands of the Amazons."

Amazon or warrior women legends were first suggested by Herodotus and 
have always been confined with the Scythians.  Clearly Jordanes here 
is suggesting that the Goths were the husbands of the Amazon or 
Scythians. 

"58) But say not "Why does a story which deals with the men of the 
Goths have so much to say of their women?" Hear, then, the tale of 
the famous and glorious valor of the men. Now Dio, the historian and 
diligent investigator of ancient times, who gave to his work the 
title "Getica" (and the Getae we have proved in a previous passage to 
be Goths, on the testimony of Orosius Paulus)--this Dio, I say, makes 
mention of a later king of theirs named Telefus. Let no one say that 
this name is quite foreign to the Gothic tongue, and let no one who 
is ignorant cavil at the fact that the tribes of men make use of many 
names, even as the Romans borrow from the Macedonians, the Greeks 
from the Romans, the Sarmatians from the Germans, and the Goths 
frequently from the Huns."

Here Jordanes says the Goths are the Getae on the testimony of 
Orosius Paulus.  Further he says that names are often borrowed which 
I am sure Dirk and Francisc will comment upon.  Do also note here 
that the Germans and the Goths are referred distinctly here and not 
as one entity.  

"(61) Then Cyrus, king of the Persians, after a long interval of 
almost exactly six hundred and thirty years (as Pompeius Trogus 
relates), waged an unsuccessful war against Tomyris, Queen of the 
Getae. Elated by his victories in Asia, he strove to conquer the 
Getae, whose queen, as I have said, was Tomyris. Though she could 
have stopped the approach of Cyrus at the river Araxes, yet she 
permitted him to cross, preferring to overcome him in battle rather 
than to thwart him by advantage of position. And so she did. (62) As 
Cyrus approached, fortune at first so favored the Parthians that they 
slew the son of Tomyris and most of the army. But when the battle was 
renewed, the Getae and their queen defeated, conquered and 
overwhelmed the Parthians and took rich plunder from them. There for 
the first time the race of the Goths saw silken tents. After 
achieving this victory and winning so much booty from her enemies, 
Queen Tomyris crossed over into that part of Moesia which is now 
called Lesser Scythia--a name borrowed from great Scythia,--and built 
on the Moesian shore of Pontus the city of Tomi, named after herself."

Here Jordanes is discussing the exploits of the Massa-Getae – a very 
important point to note.  He is not discussing the Getae (Thracian) – 
Iranian Massagetan Queen Tomyris battled against Cyrus the Great of 
Persia in 529 B.C.  A further note, he calls the Persian, Parthians 
in this context because he believes the Persians to also be of 
Scythian origin.   

"82) But let us now return to the point whence we made our digression 
and tell how the stock of this people of whom I speak reached the end 
of its course. Now Ablabius the historian relates that in Scythia, 
where we have said that they were dwelling above an arm of the Pontic 
Sea, part of them who held the eastern region and whose king was 
Ostrogotha, were called Ostrogoths, that is, eastern Goths, either 
from his name or from the place. But the rest were called Visigoths, 
that is, the Goths of the western country."

Here Jordanes discusses the names Ostro-goth and Visi-goths, meaning 
the eastern and western Goths, respectively.  These compound names 
seem to be analogous to the names of Massa-Getae, Thyssa-Getae, 
Thyrsa-Getae, Tyri-Getae, Euer-Getae, and "frozen" Getae, with Getae 
being the principal denomination. 

"(83) As already said, they crossed the Danube and dwelt a little 
while in Moesia and Thrace. From the remnant of these came Maximinus, 
the Emperor succeeding Alexander the son of Mama. For Symmachus 
relates it thus in the fifth book of his history, saying that upon 
the death of Caesar Alexander, Maximinus was made Emperor by the 
army; a man born in Thrace of most humble parentage, his father being 
a Goth named Micca, and his mother a woman of the Alani called Ababa."

Emperor Maximinus had a Gothic Father and an Alan Mother.  This 
suggests that Goths and Alans were perhaps closely allied, a bit 
strange for a sedentary and the nomadic population?

"90) And what more? Ostrogotha and his men soon crossed the Danube 
and ravaged Moesia and Thrace. Philip sent the senator Decius against 
him. And since he could do nothing against the Getae, he released his 
own soldiers from military service and sent them back to private 
life, as though it had been by their neglect that the Goths had 
crossed the Danube. When, as he supposed, he had thus taken vengeance 
on his soldiers, he returned to Philip. But when the soldiers found 
themselves expelled from the army after so many hardships, in their 
anger they had recourse to the protection of Ostrogotha, king of the 
Goths."

Here is just an example of Jordanes using Getae and Goth 
interchangeably – this is seen frequently, as if in his mind he is 
speaking of the same entity.  No wonder why he named his book Getica 
instead of Gothica?

Source: Mierow at http://www.northvegr.org/lore/jgoth/index.html

Best Wishes, 



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